VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[JTVG]

In the race to IP (which is more like a slow crawl, as far as studios adopting the technology are concerned), it will be interesting to see if a single piece of software or hardware will emerge as the defacto standard, which is probably the best case scenerio. Second best is that there will be multiple programs but they all can reliably connect with each other. Worst case is studios adopting all different kinds of solutions and we talent having to have many different options at the ready.

In the meantime, it's interesting that both Telos & Musicam have announced IP compatibility with the Luci Live program, which works on smartphones or desktops.
Telos parntners with Luci Live
and Musicam's announcement
_________________
Joe Szymanski
http://www.joethevoiceguy.com

[Dan-O]

...

[Frank F]

I believe there are more issues than studio to studio or "live". The prevalent issue is hardware vs. software followed by mobile vs hardwire and finally OS choices.

Studios want hardware standalone devices to keep the software and internet OFF their working computers - scratch Source Connect, enter Comrex, Telos, Tieline. Talent and "live" want cross platform and mobile capable software - cue Luci and Source Connect; with a cavaet: many Pro's do not want bugs and malware and do not have the space on their iPad, iPod, Android, iPhone, or whatever to record a long-long long form project. Additionally products such as Luci and Source Connect do not work equally well on desktops and laptops and in several cases cannot use the same codecs on mobile platforms.

So, what to do? I happen to know of a project in the works which combines the ease of use of NO Software (*to download) but is cross platform (Windows, Mac, and Linux, plus iOS and Android capable) and will also have hardware standalone products for studios and other professionals. The hardware will also serve the "live" broadcast markets engineers with it's capabilities. Watch for it to be announced on Indiegogo within the next 30 to 45 days.

Oh, as an adjunct note to the new project; at least one codec will work with Comrex, Musicam, Tieline and other IP codecs except Source Connect, Telos, and may be compatible with LUCI hardwire.

A side note: In Utah the ball fields and college stadiums have announced they are seeking something other than ISDN as it will not be available after June 2013 for installation.

They're Off and the races are just beginning in the realization of the final demise of ISDN for audio services.

Frank F

* Interface is completely contained within browser during the opening phase of the product.
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[kgenus]

Ah yes, this is the techie world in which I use to live as a programmer / network engineer, and a time I've been waiting for. I'm going to get a little geekish here, but stay with me on this, I'm going to attempt to explain it in a way that my neighbor could understand, some of you already know this.

You're probably thinking, why are you talking about this?

I want to encourage people to look at things as a whole, as opposed to this or that product offering. Like when you used to buy a TV and piece of crap model had a better picture because it wasn't on the signal repeater. Yeah, you all remember those days.

Anyway....

In today's world, there's something called an OSI (Open System Interconnection) model which defines the 7 layer protocol implementation in the networking framework. WTF? Basically, "These are the standards to which we all agree." The first three layers represent the 1) physical connection (like RJ-11 or RJ-45), 2) data link (remember dialup p connections?) and 3) network type (so, we mainly use IP or IPsec). This is the "current" network configuration/implementation telecoms sell to consumers.

Where does ISDN fit?

ISDN (It Still Does Nothing) represents all three of those layers (physical connection, data link and network type) in a product that was formerly sold to businesses because it offered data and voice. The rest of us typically had regular POTS service at home (and we used a modem to send data). Different yet similar topologies along singular or multiple copper pairs.

Still with me?

Now back to OSI - the OSI model has 7 layers, each being customizable to your networks design and/or specific needs. I mention this because we get so caught up in the discussion regarding which tools we're going to use when in reality, it may not be the tools that change.

What do you mean, Kevin? What could change?

The data link. Well, earlier I mentioned those P connections we use to use in the days of modems and dialup service over our POTS lines. Today, we use Ethernet with our cable, DSL or fiber lines. Here's the kicker - not all networks use Ethernet. There are other data link types, such as ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode, not your bank's atm), which provide the same type of switched service reliability we get with ISDN.

How does ATM work?

All the data is sent like a train along the same train track, all the packets in the same order, to the endpoint. There's no routing, it's all point-to-point, it's VERY fast. It's not like cars in a traffic jam, with some lanes moving while others wait - that's Ethernet.

By the way, in the OSI model applications are the LAST LAYER, the passenger, if you will. So, your applications that use IP are essentially passengers riding in the ATM train or the Ethernet car, so from your perspective as a user, your desktop functionality will remain the same. ATM networks would experience a massive increase in every way possible - absolutely MIND BOGGLING.

Now, I'm not suggesting that every network is going to change from Ethernet to the 1980s designed ATM, or that it will even be an available replacement. I am using it purely as an example to not only illustrate, but also educate.... so you don't run out and buy the wrong TV.

Hey... just because broadcast facilities use ATM already <hint><hint> does not mean their production facilities have access to those networks. Under Live conditions, ATM would work just like ISDN.

So all of that to say this.... Whatever you do, in addition to following the growth of codecs, be they hardware or software, do not turn a blind eye to the network in use.

My apologies for the book.
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Genus

[Bish]

I used to teach data communications, and that little trip down memory lane with the OSI/ISO 7-layer model made me smile. The explanation given, including the fact that the application is the seventh layer, is a good reminder to us all. I have always pontificated about any solution that does not attack the issues of the network itself is, and will always be, a store and forward solution. Latency, dynamic routing, re-assembly of non-sequential data packets and packet loss are not conducive to "live" work. The first three layers will deal with the physical transportation of the bits... but by the time you get to layer four, you're in deep do-do. End-to-end error control (acks & naks etc.) means that if you send a data stream, e.g. uploading a file to a client via FTP, attachment or cloud upload, the end-to-end error correction will ensure that all data is received OK (but, in its own sweet time). There is no "good enough" standard... it's either good... or it isn't. The nature of the beast with any real-time system (VoIP, Skype etc) is that packet loss is acceptable because it's only speech/video, and we only need a certain percentage of the information for our monkey-brains to interpret it properly. Unless the problem is addressed at layer three, as Kevin says, we cannot emulate ISDN functionality via the existing public network.

Long live the geeks... the geeks will save us all
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

[Frank F]

Thank you Kevin, you summed it up well in the last paragraph.

Frank F
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[georgethetech]

Wow, just catching up on the VOBB tonight... That was awesome, Kev!
I lernt stuff. Can't wait to see what's cookin' in your world, Frank. I'll be tuned into IndieGoGo.

ATM networks are leased by major broadcast and production hubs for sending uncompressed HD video around the country, I believe. I saw a system with 90mb/s switched fiber network, completely private. Anyone can get one of these to connect to their partner studios, just have to blow the $$$.

Source Connect is definitely a closed system, with the server intermediary, traffic cop, directory thing. Luci can talk to Telos and Musicam, so that's pretty compelling.

I hear SIP is something that should make it easier for all the different hardware systems to talk to eachother.
_________________
If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
TriBooth.com Co-founder

[nathanedwardlang]

Interesting that I just found this post and a Google search on something related. I put together this piece:

http://nathanlang.com/me/2013/07/19/audio-ip-codecs/

About my foray into the Audio IP Codec field. At the time of the writing (July '13) things did not look good. At the time of this writing, I'm happy to report things are looking somewhat better, with the Luci Studio leading the charge. With Luci, I think a lot of the options have opened up considerably. Particularly the "interoperability" issues that plagued IP Codecs well before they even got off the ground goods.

+N
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+nathanlang
the young + hip + versatile voice over talent for commercial + narrative + promo brands.
nathanlang.com
book me via isdn, z/ip codec, or source-connect
source-connect: nathanlang
p: 347.559.7602 | isdn: 718.424.0795 + 8623

[cyclometh]

Heh, I used to teach internetworking theory at the local community college.

I'm glad I don't do that any more.
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Corey "Vox Man" Snow
http://voxman.net

[Eddie Eagle]

Sooooo. Is that Kevin Genus orrrrr...wait for it///////
Kevin Genius?