VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

Jacob Ekstroem

With the recent Source-Connect "Pro or Standard?" discussion, I'd like to address an issue that I find somewhat appalling - the cost of support and upgrades.

I was lucky enough to get SC "Standard" when it was available at the introduction discount price of $395. Nowadays it's $650, which is only a little less than the newest, full version of my DAW. And the "Pro" version is a whopping $1495, twice the price of the newest version of my DAW (being Steinberg Wavelab 8, by the way - I use WL5) and more than a Sennheiser MKH416 or Neumann TLM103.

If you spend that much on a single piece of software you would expect to be covered in regards to support and future upgrades, or at least patches. Mind you, many users (including me) of the (free) SC Desktop application had problems with the default location of dll-files causing the application not to work. I need the Desktop application, because my DAW doesn't support the usual VST-version of SC. However, Source Elements NEVER issued a patch for this. In fact, to my knowledge no free patch has ever been released for any Source Elements application. Correct me if I'm wrong.

SC is now on version 3.7. I'm still running version 3.1. Why? Because my six months (wow!) of free support and upgrades has expired long ago, and upgrades are solely available to users holding a support contract. A one-year renewal will cost me $105, or I could just get a three-month renewal for $28. So, will a renewal of my support contract entitle me to a free software upgrade? Nooooo... it will cost me an additional $267 to get the newest version. It's twice the amount I paid for my latest microphone.
But what if I settled for an older version, then? Let me see... SC Standard 3.7 upgrade is $267. SC Standard 3.2 is $89 but for Mac only (I run Windows), 3.3 and 3.4 are not available, 3.5 is $178 but for Mac only, 3.6 was for Mac only. So I'm either left with upgrading to 3.7, or keep running the old version.

I understand that comparing version 3.1 and 3.7 may be the same as comparing Windows XP and Windows 8 (although I highly doubt that to be the case). And I understand you need to pay for new software versions if they are essentially a new product. But IMO their pricing policies are outrageous. No other kind of stand-alone software I have installed on my system has the same licensing policies (even upgrading my OS is cheaper). In the case of my DAW for example, it can't be upgraded to WL8 directly, but if I were using WL6 an upgrade to WL 8 would cost me $257. Meaning, it would cost me less to upgrade a piece of highly advanced software I use for several hours every day, than it would cost me to upgrade a piece of simple software I have personally used ONCE in three years. And of course, Steinberg updates and patches are free of charge, with no expiring support contracts.

Does Source-Connect really need to be that expensive??

I'd like to do more Souce-Connect sessions. The single one I did two years ago paid for the investment a few times over, so I don't regret buying it. And maybe there's no real need to upgrade from 3.1 to a newer version, after all I'm still on Windows XP, and my DAW is eight years old, and it works. I just wonder, will there be a point when someone running SC 3.7 (or newer) will tell me that the two aren't compatible? Honestly I wouldn't be surprised. I could ask Source Elements, but the standard reply on their support forum seems to be: "feel free to call support"... which, of course, isn't free unless you have a support contract.

Just for the record let me add to this that SC Pro users who spend the $1495 get a FULL YEAR of free support and upgrades.... meaning, if you purchased SC Pro 3.1 more than a year ago an upgrade to 3.7 would cost you an additional $358. More than a new Shure SM7b.
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Jacob - Danish Voice Overs (try it... it sounds really funny, too!)

Jason Huggins · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:40 am Post subject:

I think that the SC software is expensive because they want to control the price of entry. It seems like more of a marketing strategy than a necessity. If they make the price really high, it will (in their minds) increase the perceived value of the software with folks in the industry. This, in turn, could propel the software into the seat ISDN currently holds as the industry standard for remote sessions because the industry perceives it to be the best option.

I could be wrong, but I doubt the development of the software really commands thrice the price of the newest version of PhotoShop. Your perception is your reality.

heyguido · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:27 am Post subject:

Software development is NOT cheap. Nor is maintaining and updating code for multiple OS libraries, drivers, and ensuring compatibility with other vendors' products.

SC is a very specialized product with a very small user base. Unfortunately, the end users must support the cost of development, or the developers would cease to exist. Sad, but true.

In spite of the cost, I doubt they're getting rich.
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Don Brookshire
"Wait.... They wanna PAY me for this?"

Jason Huggins · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:39 am Post subject:

You've got a good point. I didn't think about the market for the software. PhotoShop has a much larger market, and the bulk of sales probably brings their needed per-unit price down. SC also has done a much better job of development (especially in the features and aesthetics department) than some of the other products that are in the same market.

SoundStreak (though not exactly the same as SC) did NOT spend the money developing their product as far as SC. As a result, there is a laundry list of missing features, oddly implemented features, and an overall aesthetically annoying product.

While there is definitely some marketing strategy with their costs, I would have to agree that (at least partially) the cost IS somewhat necessary.

Bish · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:42 am Post subject:

I accept that software development is not cheap, and any worthwhile business model will have a pricing structure that will re-coup the up-front investment and provide a suitable revenue stream to both keep the product current and existing customers happy (and also provide the required operating surplus... er, profit)

So... what are SC's mistakes? Well, first up, they seem to have forgotten the fact that if you charge a heavy premium for your product, then anyone who pays out that sort of money has a high expectation of on-going service. They belong to your exclusive club, and they do NOT expect to be gouged for a few more bucks at every opportunity. I'm loathe to use Apple as an example, but people pay a premium for Apple products, and Apple does nothing but reinforce your decision at every opportunity (I'm speaking broadly... don't nit-pick here!)

This bit I really don't understand... At this time, the ISDN world is in a state of panic. It may be going away and there are LOTS of alternatives being developed. SC is positioned to be the leader here, but their business practices seem to be pointing people towards their competitors. Now would be the time to cut prices, invest in marketing and own the market. Instead of that, they have policies which are not only not attractive to new customers, but that are alienating their already establish user-base! All this at a time when the competition is getting ready to enter the fray in a very aggressive manner.

Arrogance, hubris and stupidity... lots of stupidity. If your biggest competitor (ISDN) is mortally wounded, you don't entrench and dig-in... you attack... you go for the jugular and finish him off.

This insightful business analysis brought to you by: Bish, DDPeC, AiTD, BH (Calcutta) failed.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

heyguido · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:58 am Post subject:

Good points all, Bish.

With recent developments on this front, SC is in a highly precarious position.

Forthcoming products on the horizon could make SC irrelevant, and with little warning.

Many of their existing users are just waiting for an opportunity to jump ship.

How they handle the situation (and their customers) could make all the diffference.

Personally.... I'm betting against them.
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Don Brookshire
"Wait.... They wanna PAY me for this?"

Jacob Ekstroem · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:22 am Post subject:

Bish · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:52 am Post subject:

Don, I was trying to be restrained (I tend to run away with a point sometimes), but thank you for using the word irrelevant. I think it's a real danger for them.

One of the other problems is a slightly different way people view tiered pricing structures for enhanced functionality nowadays. If you buy a car, you can pay extra for a bigger engine or leather. It's simple. If you don't pay... you don't get it. With software, there is a feeling that by paying less you are actually getting a crippled version of the whole program and you are being penalized for being "cheap". It's not the best way to start a relationship. Sometimes the "premium features" are just grayed-out to rub your nose in it. Just give us more money and we'll unlock the extras for you.

Broadly speaking, I do not like Adobe as a business entity (certainly not happy with their new subscription pricing model at all), but I do like some of their products. Photoshop is the industry standard... a fully functioned heavy-hitter. Elements, however much it may use the same engine and be a stripped-down version, does not present itself as such. It's a stand-alone, fully functioning editor pitched at a certain market segment.

SC remind me of Microsoft at their worst... multiple versions, hideous customer support, a take-it-or-leave-it attitude and no corporate culture enabling fast changes to react to moving marketplace requirements.

... and iLok!!! Give me a break. Why should I trust a company that makes me jump through (archaic) hoops like this because they obviously don't trust me?

OK... rant over Smile

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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

georgethetech · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:07 pm Post subject:

Don is right on the money here. They are still a very tiny company making a niche, professional product. SC was originally a pet project funded by a parent company, but is now owned by an individual. They are in the midst of some major restructuring, R&D, and stabilizing the Windows version of SC 3.7.
Are there other compelling technologies out there? Yes. Will emergency support issues be handled for free by all of them? I doubt it. On demand support is very expensive. Fact of the matter is, when ISDN goes poof, the IP audio streaming company with the most users in the VO market will likely win. Right now, no one else even comes close...

Luci.eu is looking really cool right now, but how's the track record in the real world? Who has it and supports it? AudioTX drew the line at Windows, alienating a huge studio user base. SoundStreak is not a direct replacement for SC. ConnectionOpen has a long way to mature. There are others, but none have made any outreach to the VO industry.

Disclaimer: I am a Source Connect dealer
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George Whittam
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heyguido · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:21 pm Post subject:

Bish.... Funny you should mention Adobe and their new subscription model. I've been having JUST that same conversation with a few developer friends of mine. Love the products, HATE the new model.

SC is not necessarily much different, what with upgrade pricing and that ridiculous support subscription.... What? I have to pay you to make your product work? Explode

A couple of friends just came back from San Francisco. They both say rumors persist that an answer is in the pipeline.... The only question is whether the studios / agencies will accept opening up their systems to the net. With ISDN dying on the vine, they may have no choice.
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Don Brookshire
"Wait.... They wanna PAY me for this?"

Bruce · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:30 pm Post subject:

They can charge whatever they want because it's "new" and a "small batch" product and the only one like it that works (more of the time than anything comparable anyway).

I remember buying a VHS machine for $700+ in 1977 dollars ($2,700 in today's dollars!!) and several years ago I bought one for less than $50 new. And the better tape format Beta (according to many) lost out.

Five, ten years from now we'll be saying, "hey, remember back in the old ISDN/Source Connect days?"

B
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georgethetech · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject:

Heck, I just bought a Bluray player that connects to the Internet via WIFI, lets you watch videos from your own network, will mind-meld with my Android phone and iPod Touch, views Netflix, Youtube, Hulu, Amazon, and cost $120.

Oh, and it plays DVDs, too.
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If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
TriBooth.com Co-founder

bransom · DC Joined: 06 Nov 2008 Posts: 650 Location: St. Louis, MO

SC's support and upgrade policies remind me of Avid or Quark ... and that's not a good thing. Treat your customers poorly and they will run away at the first chance they get.
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Bob Ransom
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georgethetech · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:47 pm Post subject:

Source Elements is listening and cares what you guys think, believe me...
_________________
If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
TriBooth.com Co-founder

heyguido · Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:25 pm Post subject:

If they're listening, I'd love to see them rethink their support policy....

At the existing price point, support should be a given.

Priority support? A premium..... But support? With grace.... And gratitude.

Google is watching. And ready.
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Don Brookshire
"Wait.... They wanna PAY me for this?"