VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[FinMac]

Moi! (That's a modern Finnish greeting).

When is it acceptable to list someone in your client list on your website?

a. after the recording ?
b. after getting paid ?
c. after the recording goes public ?

Any thoughts?

thanks for all feedback.

Mac
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www.scottsvoiceover.com - An American voice in Finland

"If you want to get to the top, you have to get off your bottom". (Unknown)

[scottnilsen]

You will get all kinds of answers to this one, but it depends. You probably will want to make sure it's okay with your client, for various reasons. If it is alright, you may want to wait until the project is done, and by that I mean gone public (if it's for the public).

There may be differing opinions on the value of having your clients listed.
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We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Well, that and mimes.

(714)408-6405 www.scottnilsen.com

[Yonie]

When they allow it.

[Frank F]

All the above. Just a thought though; be cautious of posting "client lists".

Recently I had a government agency mention they had been looking for a list of my previous clients. I simply stated I choose not to brag,about my accomplishments. Three days letter I received a demand letter asking for my client list... I promptly sent the demand to my attorney who subsequently declined the invitation to disclose corporate information.

Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Ben Amos]

[Philip Banks]

When the client name makes a difference and if the fact that you have worked for them is not subject to an NDA ....

You are looking to get the "Well iffin he did that then he'll be simply zippiddydoodah fer moi" reaction.

Don't name clients because you can, name them because you should.

- Pro advice, that'll be £5 please

[Bob Bergen]

Philip nailed it!!

It's interesting. Until online technology, we didn't call them clients. We called it a job. Many in the larger markets still don't call buyers clients. But if you want to post, I say follow the Banks school of PR. B

[Bruce]

There's probably a line out there that shouldn't be crossed. I did a voiceover for Tide detergent once. However, it was for an employee safety video for a Tide manufacturing plant, not a commercial for the product, so I've been holding back on alerting the media for several years now.


B
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VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005

I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .

[Jason Huggins]

So are you then suggesting that only clients that you have done major public campaigns for should be mentioned?

[heyguido]

I once did an industrial for Coors. I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to pass that off as having done Coors national. That’s the kind of thing that could bite you on the @$$.
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Don Brookshire
"Wait.... They wanna PAY me for this?"

[todd ellis]

i think it depends on the context --- i do a lot of eLearning --- i mention big pharmas in my client list - i haven't done national tv spots for them - but in my niche - i work for them a lot - and that's (mostly) the kind of work i'm looking for.


---- dashes

more dashes -----------
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"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?

[Bob Bergen]

This isn't quite the same thing, but what I feel is an important related issue and one that is damaging a lot of voice actors out there, and that's vanity posts disguised as PR. Actors posting what they've auditioned for and (or) booked online, not to further their career but to brag and (or) get a pat on the back. This is biting many in the ass..and the wallet! The following is a letter that was sent out by a top LA VO agent to his actors, who are referred to here as clients:

ACTORS LOSING JOBS DUE TO SOCIAL MEDIA POSTINGS!!
Don’t Let This Happen to You…Read On.

We live in crazy times. Take the internet. It’s a marvelous technological advance and its information sharing capabilities are a genuine miracle. We’ve embraced it and so appreciate all of our clients who understand what an important promotional tool the internet can be to their careers. We know that many of you use Facebook, Twitter and similar sites for self-promotion and these too can be a marvelous ways to keep your customers, let alone us, updated on all that you do. However, sometimes this sort of new technology can be a bane as well as a boom. We’d like to call to your attention the dangers for you and your career to be too explicit in the information you post to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, LinkedIn, your personal website and other on-line services and accounts enabling users to post information for general viewership or to select “friends.” We’re sorry to say that a number of situations have cropped-up with clients from both our Los Angeles and New York offices during the past year or so involving confidential information being announced on their public electronic billboards. Some of our clients have posted information about castings and bookings and have even noted their deal terms! This is a problem that can only be solved by the individual clients using discretion in what information they share. These public billboards can’t always be used as a personal newsletters or gossip rags. Although we’re sure that in most cases our clients are posting business information out of pride and to please themselves and their friends but the internet’s scope is such that almost anyone with a device and web access can see your information and even share it with others themselves.

You can’t assume that just because you’ve been chosen to audition for a project or selected to be cast in role that you’ve been granted carte blanche to announce publically details about the project and your involvement in it. An actor isn’t usually granted automatic proprietary rights in these projects and consequently has no right whatsoever to post information on the project publically without the written permission of the materials’ owners. Our agents have received dozens of calls from angry ad agencies, production companies, business affairs executives, producers, casting directors and others associated with specific projects wondering why our clients thought they had the right to announce proprietary information. In fact, this carelessness has caused more and more of those we do business with to create legal documents that our clients must sign specifically forbidding them to make any public announcement of a casting or a booking (think of the group of NFL Players who were fined or suspended for information or opinions they disclosed on Twitter). We implore you to please use all discretion when it comes to these websites that enable you to share information. It’s simply bad business not to.

We also invite you to consider being much more discreet in commentaries made on your pages about people in our business including fellow actors, producers, studios, ad agencies, casting directors, and even agents and talent agencies. Malicious or non-malicious gossip or personal information may impress some people; however it’s more than likely going to invite legal action from the parties named and who aren’t impressed. And why given how hard an actor must work in and at their career would anyone want to risk inviting this sort of discord? They’re simply asking for trouble from the party injured, intentionally or not, by these comments and information.

We think the world of our clients and always want to honor the fine performers we represent. There are plenty of times we’d love to shout from the rooftops, electronically or literally, that our client has booked a job and here’s the deal. However, we certainly don’t want any client represented by our agency to risk having their reputation, nor ours, tarnished. Please think twice before sharing any trivial commentaries or privileged information on-line. Please be discreet.

Now on to continuing to using the internet as the true gift it was intended to be for all of us.

Thank you.


This is a pretty recent phenomena. Actors have always promoted their careers. I myself have a publicist that I put on retainer when I have something worthy of media attention to promote. But the internet has made it possible for smart actors to save a bundle and do the PR themselves.

But how, where, and when is as important as what one is promoting. We used to do this in a postcard. Watch me next Thursday at 8pm on Friends! You waited for your job to air and promoted this event. That has relevance and could lead to another job.

But today, actors post everything. Not to advance their career, but to advance their ego. The latter might lose you a job, representation, and damage your reputation.

I myself spend every waking hour I'm not auditioning or working promoting my career. It's me, my home studio, and hours of marketing. Specific and strategic marketing.

Now, getting a little back on topic, I find it pretentious and a presumptuous to call a buyer who hired you once a client. Client has always been referred to a buyer whom you have repeat business or a campaign. That said, client seems to have taken off to refer to anyone who has hired, so there you have it.

I think the most important thing for all is to absolutely market and promote your career. Be smart about it. Post something worthy of posting. Keep in mind that in the old days, buyers and the like only knew what you did or heard your demos/work if you snail mailed them your marketing. By posting it online, you are inviting the entire world to view and (or) hear you. Make it count! Post brilliant demos. Get demo advice privately. Even if a posting is taken down, you have no idea who has kept it, shared it, etc. Treat yourself and present yourself and your career as if you were one of the major players in VO. The respect and returns will reflect this.

Bottom line: don't confuse bragging with PR.

[cyclometh]

I'm going to agree and disagree with Bob on a couple of points.

Firstly, on client lists- I've never felt comfortable with them. Early on I experimented with a "done work for" list, but it really isn't cricket (in my opinion) to take the fact that I've voiced stuff for Home Depot's management training to imply that I've done work for Home Depot that anyone would have heard that wasn't an employee there.

I think my resume's impressive enough to get work, and that's demonstrably true every day. I'm not going to have a shiny logo list, although if I worked at it it would be moderately impressive- unless you asked what specifically I did for those big companies. E-learning, corporate narrations and safety videos are not what is implied by such things.

And I realize there's a bit of irony in my saying this while I have a thread on this very forum entitled "Shameless Self-Promotion" with a video I narrated, but that was posted here to share something I was proud of with people I consider my peers. I do share things like that with potential and current clients when it's useful as a way of showing what I've done and what I can do. And it's done with full permission of the client.

Which brings me to...

Where I'm going to disagree with Bob is on the use of the term "client". One of the things I bring to the table in terms of my business is that I treat everyone I work with as though they are important to me. There's a different implication in the relationship of "customer" and "client" (at least, there is in my mind). Customers get asked if they want fries with their order. Clients get taken care of in a much more personal way.

To me, everyone is a client, even if I only work with them once. Because I will treat them as though we've been working together for a decade from the first email or phone call I get from them. And it pays dividends- you would be AMAZED at how much work you can get just by being easy and pleasant to work with!
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Corey "Vox Man" Snow
http://voxman.net

[Bish]

This is interesting. One of the other downsides of the internet, apart from the indiscriminate over-sharing of inappropriate information (as Bob highlights so very well), is the platform it supplies for endless multiple options. It used to be a case of thinking "A" while considering alternate "B"... and coming to a studied conclusion. Now, we ask the questions of the world and get options A, B, C thru Z! Too many options, too many choices... and everyone of them is probably right for its individual proponent. On the internet, everyone has an opinion, and everyone gives it.

The client/customer issue is one I've seen flare up a few times. I prefer Corey's view and last year changed my computer filing system from "customer files" to "client files". It's all just labels and nomenclature... it's business fashion. I used to work in a business where we had clients... business relationships worth millions where we partnered on development... but we called them customers. It's not the label we use, it's the attitude we bring to our own business which is important. There will be a fresh crop of shiny MBAs hitting the street soon, and they'll tell us that customers and clients are out... and now we should call them "partners" (because it reinforces the symbiotic nature of the business relationship and the mutual dependencies in an ever-changing marketplace*)

* or some such twaddle
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

[Bob Bergen]