VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[LEAO16]

Hi everyone,

My girlfriend Clara is thinking about signing up to Voice123.com She has received no training as a VO artist but she is trained to a ridiculously high level as a classical singer.

The problem is that we're struggling to record anything. There's always a buzzing/humming noise in the background of our recordings whether someone is talking or not. We have access to 4 microphones: a Shure SM58, a Behringer C-1, a Blue Snowball and a Samson Meteor. I have connected these to my MacBook Pro directly in the case of the USB mics and via an Alesis MultiMix 8 FireWire mixer for the non USB mics.

We have tried Noise Removal filters that successfully removed the background noise but unfortunately distorted Clara's voice too. I searched online but the solutions tend to revolve around padding the room you record in with mattresses, duvets etc. which we have tried to no avail.

Perhaps we need to buy some more expensive equipment? However, we're reluctant to simply throw money at the problem.

Any help would be gratefully received,

Cheers,
Ed

[Scott Pollak]

Ed,

First of all, without hearing an audio sample file of your problem, it's going to be pretty hard for anyone to venture a guess as to what's causing the hum. It'd be like going to an auto mechanic without your car, telling him about a noise it's making, and expecting him to make an educated guess. It's likely to be wrong.

Next, I have to be honest with you. Being trained in classical singing has almost nothing in common with being good at voiceovers other than breath control. Does Clara have any acting background or experience? Has she ever worked with scripts before? Would she be willing to let you post an example of her (voiceover) work here for critique? We might be able to offer some encouragement, or honesty, or suggestions.

I have heard many, many utterly awful wanna-be talents on Voice123 whose primary basis for doing voiceovers was being trained as a singer, and honestly, I've been surprised at how many of them were simply bad at voiceover. Clara may not be. She may be wonderful, but I would tread cautiously before spending a lot of money on a Voice123 subscription and equipment before first hearing her stuff.

I know a lot of extremely talented voiceover pros and artists who struggle to earn any money there due to the high level of professionalism and talent. Someone who is relying solely on classical musical training is likely to find it to be much tougher.
_________________
Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

[Ed Fisher]

[vkuehn]

[FinMac]

Ed,

I agree 100 percent with what Scott wrote earlier. Voice123 can be a tough nut to crack, and my background was in professional radio, which I think is closer to voiceover than singing.

Auditioning on V123 is easy but getting work through the audition my not be.
If you sign up be ready for a lot of rejection and frustration.

There are many factors as to why someone is chosen, or not chosen from the audition. But you never know why you were not chosen for a job there. It could be poor audio quality, or you performance was not up to par, or they just wanted another voice than yours.

It is like shooting free throws in a gym with the lights turned out. You might have missed the basket by a few feet or a few inches, but nobody tells by how much you missed the target, or more importantly how to correct your shot!

Often there may be 50 other people auditioning for the same job and most of them are professional at voiceover.

Voiceover has almost nothing to do with having a beautiful voice. It has everything to do with performance. Can you take someone else's text and make it sound like it was your idea?

Is Clara a great storyteller?

Before joining V123 I would suggest getting some texts to practice and posting those performances somewhere for others to critique. You can find lots of texts for practice on the Edge Studio website.

My intention is not to discourage you. I just want you to have a realistic idea of what you might find in the world of "pay-to-play" voiceover sites.

All the best,

Mac
_________________
www.scottsvoiceover.com - An American voice in Finland

"If you want to get to the top, you have to get off your bottom". (Unknown)

[LEAO16]

Hi, thank you for all your replies.

You can listen to a V/O recording Clara made with a Samson Meteor USB mic here. The buzz is masked in this recording by the background music.

I uploaded a test recording of me speaking with another mic. The first half of the recording is unedited while the second half has been passed through Audacity's Noise Removal filter.

You can listen to the test here.

Apart from the fact that I am no V/O artist and that the recording could no doubt be improved considerably with a pop filter and proper room padding, I'm quite pleased with Audacity's ability to get rid of the humm/buzz I was concerned about. What do you think?

Ed

[Scott Pollak]

Thanks for posting those, Ed.

Since there are some people on these forums who feel I exist solely for the purpose of trying to squelch the dreams of aspiring newcomers to v/o (and, quite honestly, nothing could be further from the truth), let me say that to my ears, at least, one of my concerns is probably not a concern; that being of whether Clara can deliver a script. What I heard of her sample link sounded very good. She may be one of those exceptions to the rule where her classical training has helped her and she was likely simply born with innate talent. I DO believe she can be competitive.

As for the sound issues and the second link you posted, I'll have to listen a bit more closely when time allows and comment on that, but I'm sure others will be happy to let you know their thoughts.
_________________
Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

[Rob Ellis]

Make no mistake---there are some top level talents on V123 and Voices.com.

Whatever one's opinion may be regarding P2P sites, these places have established a place in the voiceover industry.

In a way they sort of make it sound easy, and I can't really blame them since they're running a business and let's face it---in most of the VO jobs we do,our job is to make whatever we're selling seem "easy".

But the fact is in the voiceover stratosphere you are competing with talent that are highly skilled and have excellent- sounding audio.

[Jason Huggins]

On the technical side, it really just sounds like a noisy room that hasn't been treated. There is a lot of echo, and it sounds like a computer fan in the room. Check the archives for a treasure trove of info on how to isolate the mic from sound, and how to deaden the echo in the room.

[vkuehn]

Ed: I was one of those who pushed you to give us a sample to listen to, so I have spent a bit of time on the recording YOU made (not the one SHE made).

If I had the magic answer for you, maybe the same answer would work for me. (I posted the question about NOISE FLOOR) Part of me wants to say that your noise problem is inside your analog-to-digital and preamp device. At first listen it appears to be an fuzzy, hissing noise pretty steady across the spectrum. That view is supported when I look at a graph and see that your noise keeps slopping on up there, louder and louder even BELOW 15 hertz. Yeah! This internal hardware noise.

Whoops. Hold on. There is a pronouced flat spike of noise between 100 and 350 hertz, another one at 1000 to 1300 hertz, and a series of fish-skeleton spikes out in the 9,000 to 13,000 area. That could indicate computer fan noise, hard drive noise, or who knows what... being picked up by the mic.

For some immediate relieve.... like 10 dB of noise reduction... apply a high-pass filter. A really gear-headed friend of mine insists that if you have a choice, use the Butterworth Filter. Get the steepest slope you can and cut everything below 90 hertz. Do that before your normalize because the filter process will play some games with your peaks in the program content and could take them into clipping range if they are already close.

You are dealing with a signal(program content)-to-noise figure in the 30 dB range. I'm not going to ship anything that measure less than 50 dB difference, and most of us seem to want a 60 dB difference or better as our target.

The recording of your self sound gated because of the aggressive noise reduction. After fighting with the concept of noise reduction and when does it begin to "leave footprints in the sand"... I like to create a recording where I use Noise Reduction of no more than 6 dB, and absolutely NEVER for than 10 dB.

Plug and unplug things to see if you can find a hardware combination that takes out a big, big bunch of that noise. And if I figure out what in my space is causing those little "fish skeleton" high frequency spikes, I will share that here. Your source could be the same.

I would say "ditto" to what Scott had to say about Clara's voice work. If you can get the noise reduced significantly, she will be able to better recognize voice techniques she needs to implement to be even better.

[Lee Gordon]

And one more point to go along with what Rob said. Even if the majority of people you are competing against for a job on Voices.com or V123 are not very good, all it takes is two or three who are really good and you are no longer at the head of the queue. So, before you spend any money on premium memberships, be sure you are ready to compete -- both from a performance and technical level.
_________________
Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice

[Bob Stevens]

My 2 cents on the removal of noise and then rambling on...

Noise removal software like Audacity's is a tool of last resort and should only be used when all other options are exhausted. Most software removal of unwanted noise will also remove the equivalent in beneficial dynamics. Environment and chain issues should all be addressed prior to destructive manipulation of the track. If you must use software there are far better available like Izotope RX. A good quality noise gate is a better option.

Usually we supply our tracks to the client raw. Some of us may add a hint of mojo, eq etc. but ever so slightly. The idea is to supply a client with a track that is dynamically rich, clean and clear that is easy to work with and can be manipulated in post by the engineer into the audio they want to publish.

Most engineers if given a choice would rather have a raw track with noise than one that has been fooled with. Processing cannot be undone. In both cases the engineer is still putting lipstick on a pig.

Be also aware that recording and editing the human voice and spoken word is a completely different art form than music. The human voice is the most pleasing (sometimes not. <ouch>) and familiar sound to all of us. We hear it in 100% aural fidelity every day from before the day we were born. Capturing the 100% dynamic in a controlled environment and reproducing so it has the same stimulating and emotive effect is the goal. Anything that detracts from that fidelity must be dealt with as naturally as possible first. The voice/mic work being first, environment, then clean, clear and uncolored reproduction. Even the best equipment, including the voice, will sound like crap in a bad space.

Most of us have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars for the sole purpose of having a proper space to record. Many have and continue to spend thousands on VO coaches, training and acting classes. It is not unlike a musician or vocalist learning their art seeking mentors, masters, teaches and gurus. Our paths may have taken each of us in different directions. What we all have in common is that first step and the want to further our art.

This is a great group of very outgoing folks. There are a lot of part timers like myself, old timers, noobs, pros and various supporting types. No one here will discourage you. A good dose of reality can sometimes take a chunk out of your flesh though.

You have come to the holy mountain of VO. Seek (search) and you will find.

Bob
_________________
"Dialog is the painting on a canvas of silence"

[Ed Fisher]

Ahhhh. So THAT's the sound you don't like.

Since I have never let having very little or no information stop me for having an opinion, I'll give you mine.

I believe that MOST of your problem is your recording environment. That noise you hear? If you had "super sensitive hearing" THAT'S what you would hear...ALL the time. The only solution (provided you are recording at an acceptable level going in) is to have a better place to record. That's essentially "white nose" which is low level sound bouncing all over the place, coupled with the sounds leaking in from the outside that you can only hear through amplification. You might want to consider something like an inexpensive DBX 286a from ebay....if for no other reason that using the "expansion" to help to push down the background noise level. (if used tenderly)

An awfully lot of these guys here are standing in a box that for all intents and purposes is HERMETICALLY sealed. (lol) There really IS a reason that they stand there ...sweat dripping....breathing the same air. Risking gradual asphyxiation. Because if they have so much as a CRACK...the SOUND comes in with it.

That's because IT HAS TO BE QUIET. (I MEAN....really quiet...shhhh)

The software you used was helpful....although I thought there was some artifacts. But, interestingly when you did the noise reduction we were able to hear more of the ROOM where you were recording. You can actually HEAR the hard surfaces around you. Which is not a good thing. (don't you have a closet that's full of hanging clothes or something?).

This is only one person's opinion and I'm sure there are others here who either know more or at least think they do. (sometimes it hard to tell the difference). They will likely disagree and tell you what is REALLY the problem.

As for your Girlfriend's production. I liked her voice. It's unique and doesn't sound like the "typical" female VO voice that you normally hear. Factor into that the fact that I am American....and we typically think that any British Accent sounds pleasing....and there you have it.

As mentioned earlier: Voice123. Voices.com.
I recently took them up on a "special" offer to try them out for a month.
Trust me. It is a VERY HUMBLING EXPERIENCE.

It teaches you very quickly how to handle REJECTION.,
Or...NOT. (sob)

They are brutal.

[FinMac]

Hei Ed,

After listening to Clara I just want to add my opinion that she has talent and should pursue Voice Over.

However, I would not even think about joining V123 until you get the noise problem solved and the room in good order.

All the best,

Mac
_________________
www.scottsvoiceover.com - An American voice in Finland

"If you want to get to the top, you have to get off your bottom". (Unknown)

[heyguido]

I've stayed out of this because I, too, have been chastised for being non-supportive of noobz....

Which is ironic.... Because after decades, I still consider myself a noob, compared to Bob and Bob, and a host of others who amaze me on a regular basis....

But I feel obliged to offer a few observations, based on your original post, and the files you've provided.

1) She's got a voice, and basic talent. She could do this.... But she's raw, and could use training.

2) Your space needs work.... Specifically, proper isolation and acoustic treatment worthy of a professional recording environment.

3) The gear you have is not sufficient to the task. The investment necessary to be competitively equipped is significant, and should be considered in your plan.

Please don't take these observations as discouragement.... But, rather, as honest counsel.

Doing this requires determination, practice, training, investment, and sacrifice.

There's no golden ticket.
_________________
Don Brookshire
"Wait.... They wanna PAY me for this?"