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VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!
Established November 10, 2004
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ballenberg
Lucky 700
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 793
Location: United States
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 Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Might be. |
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Ed Fisher
DC
Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 605
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ballenberg wrote: | It's not the critique I disagree with--it's the tone, the attitude.
I agree that the critique can and should be honest and to the point. Maybe harsh is too strong a term--it's just so direct as to be "in your face."
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This is B.S.
If you get criticism here, many times it is from some of the EXPERTS in the field. How VALUABLE is that? And NOW you want to complain that the criticism is somehow...too INSENSITIVE?
(which it WASN'T... by the way)
Now I feel so bad.
Can we do anything for you?
Maybe we could all chip in and buy you a puppy?
If the Internet has taught me anything, it is to have a thick skin.
THIS site is incredible civil.
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"I reserve the right to be completely wrong." |
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Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone chill. No need to jump on Ballenberg. He has a right to his opinion without everyone attacking him.
If anyone has any feedback on the audiobook demo, go for it. Otherwise, let's leave this alone.
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Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com |
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Ed Fisher
DC
Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 605
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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(Whistle Blows)
Referee Drops Flag.
Announcement comes over the loudspeaker:
"That's 15 yards...for piling on!"
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"I reserve the right to be completely wrong." |
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ballenberg
Lucky 700
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 793
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Wait...I don't get my puppy? |
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NateOphonic
Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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No need for further review. I have chosen to pull the sample. While all the posts had valid opinions about it, some posts were much more effective, as the critiques were paired with attempts to find something good in the material. Besides, my studio is only on the second floor, so I wouldn't have snuffed it had I jumped.
In my opinion Mr. Banks, had tremendous insight into understanding that I was using samples found at ACX as a measure of the field I am looking to enter, and pointed me to a higher standard of excellence. You can bet I'll follw his links to listen.
As of today, there are 16,464 narrators listed on ACX. I have to think this demo, even if in the bottom third in terms of quality, was better than some of the offerings I've read about on this board. I doubt mine resided at 16,465. simply due to the fact that I have some awareness due to this board..
I know this is a business frought with rejection, and I am trying the thick skin bit in ths case. In my opinion, Ballenberg was saying that when a new person comes to a respected professional for advice, there is an unspoken power differential, with the potential to devastate the person seeking the advice, so that it might be more beneficial to be mindful of delicacy involved.
That being said, this community owes nothing to anyone posting to the critique section, and it can be a tremendous and powerful opportunity to learn.
As for puppies, I got two great ones already.
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Nate Cimmino:
A man, a microphone and a pair of reading glasses. (How they learned to read, I'll never know) |
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bobsouer
Frequent Flyer
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 9883
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| heyguido wrote: | | Ballenberg.... (is there a 1st name? It feels sort of impersonal to address you by your handle...) |
Don,
Since you and I are friends, I'll just pop in here to mention that Mr. Ballenberg's name is Bill Ballenberg. If I remember correctly, Bill and I haven't met in person yet, but I very much look forward to the when I get to shake his hand in real life.
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Be well,
Bob Souer (just think of lemons)
The second nicest guy in voiceover.
+1-724-613-2749
Source Connect, phone patch, pony express |
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Scott Pollak
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1903
Location: Looking out at the San Juan mountains
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like all my life I've heard "It's not WHAT you say, but HOW you say it". Something I am, sadly, far too guilty of. But I gotta agree, no one gives constructive criticism better than Bob Bergen.
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.
www.voicebyscott.com |
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Ed Fisher
DC
Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 605
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ballenberg wrote: | | Wait...I don't get my puppy? |
Nope.
But as a consolation prize, if you will private me your address, I'll try to ship you MINE.
He's extremely old.
Mostly blind, completely deaf and he has various tumors growing all over his body.
BUT... he still has a good appetite.
I have sworn, that if only I can outlive him, he will be my last.
(at the moment, I see my odds as about 50/50))
  
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"I reserve the right to be completely wrong."
Last edited by Ed Fisher on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bish
3.5 kHz
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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I usually keep far away from the Critique forum. This thread is a possible indicator as to why! However, I do want to comment on the references to ACX though... (and totally agree with Philip while I'm here).
I have not listened to your samples, but from other comments, I think it's probably fair to say that you are not in the bottom third... middle third more like it... simply because there is no barrier to entry for posting as a prospective narrator. There's no fee and no QC. It's more akin to looking at all the voices on P2P sites without filtering for who's paying for a premium subscription... just anyone who's spent five minutes registering. For this reason, the bar is set very low, and should not be used as any form of objective indicator.
I love the people who do the Librivox thing... I think most of them have ACX profiles as well, but apart from a handful of shining stars and another handful of very competent narrators, most are well-meaning enthusiasts (God bless 'em).
Just keep in mind that ACX is free-to-play and judge accordingly.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls. |
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vkuehn
DC
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 688
Location: Vernon now calls Wisconsin home
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to regret this post when I wake up in the morning.... but it fits... and the conversation needs a giggle or two.
Reminds me of the Country Music Radio Guy who threw this into the middle of the Trading Post program one noon hour:
Missing. One dag. Blind in one eye. Left ear is missing it's tip. Left rear foot badly mangled. Has only one testicle. Answers to the name LUCKY. |
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Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| NateOphonic wrote: | | it might be more beneficial to be mindful of delicacy involved. |
Sure, but when you ask for critique, you don't get to request how that critique is delivered.
Nothing annoys me more than when someone says "I'd like an honest critique, but I'm new, so be nice to me!" That's not asking for critique, that's asking for validation. My snark reply is "Tell me what you want to hear and I'll repeat it back to you."
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Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com |
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Bish
3.5 kHz
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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It may be worth quoting the sub-title of the Critique section on the VO-BB Index page...
"Post here to get feedback from the toughest critics on the planet."
... or, as Dante would have it...
Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.
_________________
Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls. |
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NateOphonic
Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| JeffreyKafer wrote: | | Sure, but when you ask for critique, you don't get to request how that critique is delivered. |
True that. To be fair, I was taking my lumps without a whining response post, and commented that the critiques had valid points. I noted the above view with reference to Mr. Ballanburg's possible reasoning in his post qustioning tone. Of course, tone is difficult to accurately determine in a print medium.
I pulled the sample mainly because I came to see that I did not think the selection of of it out too well. I used a part that had launched into two characters who were not the main characters, without any set up to lay out the relationship between them, and one of the characters (who is actually a minor one- she didn't even make the author's character description list) did in fact have a choppy, staccato delivery, on purpose. It might be possible to think I read the whole book that way, which I didn't. The sample really did not represent the book, or my read very well, although it is part of it.
I also agree with Mr. Kuehn's thought about humor.
Kumbaya, Y'all
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Nate Cimmino:
A man, a microphone and a pair of reading glasses. (How they learned to read, I'll never know) |
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Ed Fisher
DC
Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 605
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| NateOphonic wrote: | | To be fair, I was taking my lumps without a whining response post, and commented that the critiques had valid points. I noted the above view with reference to Mr. Ballanburg's possible reasoning in his post questioning tone. Of course, tone is difficult to accurately determine in a print medium. |
Quite true. It should be noted that you took your instruction without complaint and this only became this long tortured thread because someone else felt they needed to come to your rescue. The whole "tone" business is always hanging over us. But sometimes one gets tired of continually having to put "smiley faced emoticons" everywhere so all will know when we are writing with a "chuckle" in our heart(s).
| NateOphonic wrote: | | I pulled the sample mainly because I came to see that I did not think the selection of of it out too well.. |
My impression of the read was more of a technical nature. But, I kept my mouth shut since I have a tendency to be hyper-critical of most things and felt that others more familiar with the Book production process would be more useful.
HOWEVER, the gating (downward compression) was too severe -IMHO -and can add to a "choppiness" or cause the aforementioned sounding like a "lisp." Which, may in fact, have been the "trigger" that caused Mr. B. to feel compelled to come to your rescue. (total conjecture on my part).
(It should be noted that if someone DOES have a "lisp" then Mr.K is totally within his purview to point out that Audio Book Reading is not a realistic career path. And, I believe in that case, such a matter-of-fact statement would be a kindness.)
My own method of downward compression adjustment taken from a DBX technician (used first on the DBX 286 and then later on the Focusrite Voicemaster) is to set the expansion ratio to it's highest setting and then bring the "threshold" down to just above the noise level so there is total silence. Then adjust down the "expansion ratio" (called release on the Focusrite) until you hear the room, then back it off and adjust to taste. An important part of this adjustment it to say quick words "i.e., hey, hey, hey" or possible mouth clicks or tongue pops so that you can listen for the "trailing audio artifacts" that you may get if not properly adjusted. This sounds like a lot but actually is a quick adjustment, and if you room noise is consistent, once it's set shouldn't require much more than an occasional "tweaking." (obviously the quieter the room is in the first place, the better will be your result)
| NateOphonic wrote: | | I also agree with Mr. Kuehn's thought about humor.. |
A man who can tell a good joke. (or any kind of joke for that matter) is worth his weight in Gold. Well....maybe not gold. Perhaps I am overstating the case. Well...his weight in chocolate pudding, or Jell-o, or something equally satisfying and yet, most likely bad for your waistline.
Note: Growing up in my family, we always fought hard, admitted when we were wrong (which was almost never) , forgave quickly, and moved on to more important things...like watching TV.
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