VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

richvoice · Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:28 pm Post subject: P2P sites

I've been out of the business for a while, and now that I'm jumping back in I'm considering a paid subscription to one or more P2P sites. I know that there are some who feel that this is NEVER a good idea, and I understand the danger of becoming known as a "low-cost voice talent." But it seems to me that if I avoid the low-paying gigs it might be a way to "ease back into the game."

I had memberships to both Voice123.com and Voices.com several years ago. It looks like they're still in business, so at least THEY'RE making money! Doing a quick search here leads me to threads where I'm not seeing a whole lot of (or any, really) positive comments, even from those who are apparently members. So I'm just wondering: at this point in time, is there anything good to be said about either of these, or any others that may have sprung up in the past few years? Is the general consensus to skip them altogether, or to hold your nose and plunk down the $349/$395 for the premium membership and work hard at making the investment back at least, and hopefully more?

Thanks,
Rich

Quicksilver · Been Here Awhile Joined: 29 Oct 2012 Posts: 217

I've been a member of all of them at one time or another. I always made my money back but it usually wasn't worth the time invested. Good practice though. As of recently I'm not a member of any P2Ps and feel pretty good about it. Above all, stay away from Voice Rodent, unless you want to make minimum wage and have all the fun stress of freelancing too. Lots of people kill it on the P2P's though, I just always found that other ways of getting work that were easier for me. There is no general consensus though.

Welcome back!

Philip Banks · Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:17 am Post subject:

Career management.

Do not pay someone to find you auditions
Do not pay someone who encourages people with low paying jobs to seek auditions.

You must walk the road less travelled simply to make a living.

NEVER pay any attention when someone tells you what worked for THEM, they are not wrong they're simply not you.

We rely on "performance related pay"; when we perform we get paid. In order to get to that stage we appear to insist upon giving money to people UNCONDITIONALLY. Do't do it.

Bill Campbell · DC Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 621

I've made about $7k from one of them since Jan 1. Mostly from repeat business. But, a few one time jobs from very legitimate production house/agencies.

I don't spend much time auditioning. Know YOUR strengths to whittle them down.
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richvoice · Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:04 pm Post subject:

Philip, I thought you might chime in on the thumbs-down side. Smile

The only thing you wrote that I'd quibble with is about not paying someone to find you auditions (well, I'd also quibble with not paying attention to what worked for someone else, I agree that the fact that it's someone else is important, but it's a good way to get ideas of what MIGHT work for oneself). The way I see it, that's what we do with agents -- the difference is that they get paid after the job is done, not before it's booked. But whatever commission they take is still, in effect, payment for access to auditions.

Of course, the other major difference as I see it is, in general, pay scale: my agent wouldn't touch anything that paid less than $100, and those were rare. But I still see payment to them as payment for access.

Anyway, I don't think any less of anyone using these services, or of anyone choosing not to. I just wanted to get a sense of how people feel about them these days, since it's been a few years for me.

And I look forward to more pithiness, Philip. Smile

Thanks,
Rich

Lee Gordon · Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject:

Philip Banks · Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:48 pm Post subject:

Any time I book a job I get PAID too! I'm an agent and didn't realise it. AWESOME!

If you want to pay someone else when your agent gets you booked, when you book or when you get a residual/royalty payment I can thoroughly recommend a VO talent manager in NYC. If you talk to the guy in charge he KNOWS he's gets 10% of everything from the day of signing but is vague to the point of genius when you ask what you get in return.

Chuck Davis · Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:59 am Post subject:

I know exactly who you're talking about.

This particular individual gets very cranky when he hears the word "no".
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Rick Riley · Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:11 am Post subject:

I hate to talk money because I don't feel it's anyone's business what I get paid. But I also hate to have other people think their experiences will be yours and I see it all the time when it comes to this subject. The last gig I booked on V123 (April 17th) paid $3900. One 30 sec Radio and 3 - 15 sec TV's for a Regional Restaurant. I've booked multiple $3k and $4k gigs along the same lines from V123 and ongoing gigs where those spots needed updates that have run well into five figures. Those type of jobs are there and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I've made great contacts with reputable production houses that have come back to me time and time again. So much so that I rarely even have time to audition anymore. That's what building a business should do and both V123 and Voices.com have been an integral 'part' of my business plan. I also have agents, but I didn't have agents before I could show them that I had work and I got the work through P2P. And FYI, I've never done cold calling.

Bottom line, it's YOUR business. Live it YOUR way. Find out what works for YOU. And don't let anybody tell you what won't work for you, because they really DON'T know.
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Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

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Scott Pollak · Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:46 am Post subject:

Philip Banks · Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:20 am Post subject:

People LOVE to imply that they're getting well paid, that they are awesome and apply the "none of their business" very selectively.

Say something or don't say it but please stop deafening everyone with the sound of moving goal posts.

GOLDEN COMMENT for the decade "it is your business and it is up to you to run it". When Rick or Scott kindly decide to feed my dogs and pay my bills then I will have an interest in how much they earn, until then I'm simply delighted to know that they and others are doin' just fine.

In the VO community the veil that is community spirit is very thin indeed.
New T shirt emblem should be the discarded Lemon from a Gin and Tonic - Bitter and Twisted.

It's tough out there, so anyone who wants to make a living from VO work try to do what ever you must to make this business work for you and if you're struggling send me an email, better still pick up the phone or Skype, I'm here for you and my guess is that's true for a number of people reading this thread.

Last month I earned $12.42 plus bus fares ...oh and free pies. and dog biscuits, obviously.

Rick Riley · Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:30 am Post subject:

DeadDillo · Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:07 am Post subject:

This is interesting because this thread says two things to new talent.

1. P2P sites are the devil.

2. People make boatloads of cash thanks to P2P sites.

I think if anything, P2P gives you exposure to the agencies and advertisers that are willing to pay a fair rate for work. But to get to the big bucks, you have to put in the hard work no matter what.

At first glance, Rick's words make me think, "Well, Hell...*I* want to make $4K on one job. (especially as I sit here looking at a 200 word script that I'm getting paid a whopping $30 for.) Maybe I should look into one of these sites."

But then Philip throws in the common-sense voice of reason that has been echoed everywhere: Don't pay someone to find you auditions.

When it comes down to it, you have to have the voice that the client wants first. If you have the talent, P2P might be a good way to start. But if you are new and still trying to get your legs underneath you, you are cannon fodder - giving your money to people who couldn't possibly care any less about you.

I think that as long as you can measure a return on investment, the idea of being part of the P2P machine has some merits. But only if it actually justifies the costs, both in money and time.
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Rick Riley · Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:46 am Post subject:

Lee Gordon · Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:52 am Post subject:

PC or Mac
Sitting or standing
Headphones or no headphones
Pro Tools or something simpler (i.e Adobe Audition)
Condenser mic or dynamic mic
Ketchup or Mustard
P2P or cold calling

There is no right or wrong. It's what you're comfortable with.
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Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice