VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

Mike Harrison

I don't believe I've ever seen this on a (talent) Agreement, Consent and Release form before: I am being asked for my Social Security number.

I have no problem supplying the number to those parties responsible for making payment. But I do have a problem with the idea of my SS number being on a form, not directly related to payment, that's going to sit in a file cabinet that theoretically could be accessed by anyone.

A person's Social Security number is, essentially, their legal identity. And we've all heard of identity theft. Here's what the Social Security Administration has to say.

Am I being over cautious?

Oh... another note on Agreement, Consent and Release forms: the phrase "For good and valuable consideration, the receipt of which is hereby acknowledged..." indicates that the person signing this form is agreeing that they have already been paid. I'll probably agree to the other terms elsewhere in this form, but I won't agree that I've been paid before I've been paid.
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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

Bruce · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:55 am Post subject:

We have a right to be a dash suspicious these days of people doing unpleasant things with our personal information, but I think in cases like this you might be worrying too much. These are professional business dealings with a known company, yes? You could provide proof of a contractual agreement, your completion of the task, and payment (or non-payment) if such an issue came up, yes? Most companies, especially ones we're likely to deal with, aren't going to screw around with you in such a manner.

Oh, and search the web for your SS#. Mine came up 33 times. All from people who want to sell my information or protect it, in theory.

Welcome to the exciting (sheesh) 21st Century.

B
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Mike Harrison · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:12 am Post subject:

When you searched your SS number, did individual resulting pages actually associate the number with you, specifically?

The accounting department of the company asking me to sign this form already has my SS number on file. And that's where it should stay. There is no need for it to also be on a form where I agree that payment (when it is received) will be the only remuneration I am to expect.

The Social Security Administration – in addition to recommending the use of "alternate identifiers" – strongly recommends asking these questions whenever our SS number is requested:

– Why is the number is needed?
– How will the number be used?
– What happens if I refuse to provide it?
– What law requires me to give my number?

I've already had to replace a debit/credit card several times. I don't want it to ever get beyond that. So I will, indeed, ask these questions every time someone wants the legal key to my identity.
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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

ConnieTerwilliger · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:13 am Post subject:

Get a TIN/EIN. I don't put my SS on anything.
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Bish · Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:39 am Post subject:

What Connie said. I use my EIN. I've had kickback a couple of times from people who actually don't understand what an EIN is, so then I just send them a link to the official irs.gov page that states legitimate uses of the EIN. It has never failed.

Details here.
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Mike Harrison · Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:35 am Post subject:

Thanks, Peter!

I received an EIN when I registered my business name a few years ago. However, when following the link you provided, and then a link within that page, a table appeared containing several questions. Apparently, an EIN is needed if the answer to any of these questions is "yes:"

bransom · DC Joined: 06 Nov 2008 Posts: 650 Location: St. Louis, MO

Kim Fuller · Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:57 am Post subject:

I wonder if an EIN might be possible even if all answers are negative - just not required from the tax office perspective.

When I worked overseas in my youth, I made so little money for a couple of years, I was not required to file a tax return. But I found out that was just the government's perspective. From MY perspective, I really wanted to file those returns, required or not, since I might need the paper trail later on (and I did. Three years of back taxes forms, (nothing owed) and supplemental information was a pain in the butt to fill out).

So, possibly one SHOULD get an EIN even if not required according to the listed questions.

Musing aloud...sort of.

bransom · DC Joined: 06 Nov 2008 Posts: 650 Location: St. Louis, MO

ccpetersen · Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject:

I had an EIN and probably could have answered all those questions "NO" except that at the time I was a SAG/AFTRA signatory, and a few times a year I did "employ" people and have to do the paperwork for withholding. I think it doesn't matter, it's just a better number than your SSN to use, and gives you personally more privacy.
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Bruce · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:32 am Post subject:

EINs are commonly used by folks like us who would like to keep our SS# from circulating quite so much. The big reason to use them is that crooks don't like them. It's much harder to get credit with an EIN number.

That list of reasons to use an EIN? Those are requirements or strong suggestions for use. With us freelancers it is an option that we are welcome to take if we wish.... and I do.

Much more important than worrying about this? Changing our passwords on money related websites from time to time. That's where the quick cash is for the evil-doers.

B
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VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005

I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .

melissa eX · Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:22 pm Post subject:

EIN for me too. I have an LLC but you can get an EIN as an individual.

I'd also be wary Mike. If the accounting dept already has your # on file, then I'd just write "on file" where they ask for your SS#. Just because they ask doesn't mean you have to give it. On the sign in sheet for union auditions it asks for SS# - no one gives it. In fact no one puts their SAG-AFTRA # down either. Not necessary.

bobbinbeamo · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:37 pm Post subject:

I put my EIN into a pre filled and signed W9 scanned and emailed.
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Mike Harrison · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject:

Thanks, everyone, for the input!

I submitted the form, crossing out "SS#" and replacing it with my EIN. I said nothing about making the change and nothing was said by the client.

And I'll share something I learned after having to replace my debit card a couple of times: if your debit card can also be used as a credit card, use it that way whenever possible. If you use it as a debit card and the transaction is compromised, both your account number and your PIN can be lifted. Used as a credit card, your PIN isn't involved. A setback for would-be thieves.
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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

DougVox · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:27 am Post subject:

An almost-related tangent:

Medical forms at doctors' offices and hospitals often have a field for SSN. It's a holdover from decades ago when "identity theft" wasn't a thing, and they actually used those numbers to identify patients. They no longer use SSNs, but the forms haven't changed. A doctor friend told me that her patients almost always wrote their SSN, until she changed her forms.

When she asked a few patients why they wrote it down, they all said something like, "I thought you needed it."
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