VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

vkuehn

Rather than thread-jack the current topic about GRACE 101 and HSMPre devices (and other high end preamps) I have this related question.

If I decided that the really great audio of a top-end preamp is something I needed, what USB digital converter or traditional sound card would I mate up with it to keep the really clean sound? It wouldn't make sense to spend $700 to $2,500 on a great preamp and then feed the output into a $100 analog-to-digital conversion device.

What are the good A/D converters?

Vernon Kuehn
Cumming, GA

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

I use a Focusrite Forte and it seems pretty good, before that a Duet and also nice.

heyguido · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:06 pm Post subject:

For quality the average ear can't hear, the chip of choice is a Burr-Brown PCM 1704 last I heard, though some say that Cirrus Logic's latest run a close second.

Truth of the matter, though, is that, these days, most any interface of good quality or better probably contains the Cirrus Logic chips by default. They're not terribly expensive, and most manufacturers worth much (like Rob's Forte and Duet) are using them.

You can buy boutique converters for your desktop or rack, but I doubt you'd hear the difference. It's mostly numbers. Past a certain point, good enough is good enough where converters are concerned, especially for VO.

Now, your cables and connectors..... That's another story.... Ninja

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Steve Knight · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject:

It just so happens my new Audient id-22 was delivered today, and I have to say, this unit is the real deal,..the pre's are so good I'm probably putting my UA-710 on ebay,..for $699 you get the afore mentioned preamps AND a great interface..

Dayo · Cinquecento Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 544 Location: UK

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FinMac · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:10 am Post subject: Converters

Jim Williams, who made the HSMP recommended the converters from Ross Martin to me.

http://www.rossmartinaudio.com/

And this is what Ross mentioned to me

PCM4222 ADC Analog To Digital Converter. 32, 44.1,48, 88.2, 96, and 192 Sample Rates Bit Depth 24,20,18,16 Word Clock Out Master Clock Out/In Selectable Filter Response Led VU Meters With Overflow Indicators. LME49724 op amps AES, SPDIF COAX and Optical Outs. +4Db +-18Dbfs Balanced XLR and 1/4” TRS Inputs Price $362.95

It will allow a straight digital input to a mac mini via Toslink cables,

Sony Recording is using this one.

STEVE: Great to hear you love the iD22. Besides the micpres being so good, the converters are top notch as well !

Vernon: Maybe the iD22 is the answer for you as it has great converters in addition to the very clean micpres. (DISCLAIMER: I don't work for them, just like their product a lot, and was one of the first to use it for VO).
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Steve Knight · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:57 am Post subject:

OK here's an A/B comparison,..one take is thru the Audient id-22, another is the UA-710..can you tell which is which?

https://soundcloud.com/knight523/preamptest

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

I don't know how you run your 710 (clean or dirty) but my guess is:
#1-Audient
#-UA 710

vkuehn · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:56 am Post subject:

Judging tracks based on a Soundcloud delivery vehicle is probably not the best way in the world to analyze, but: I like #2. Number 1 has a lot more energy down in the under 100 hz area, #2 seems a bit crisper, and maybe just a bit cleaner between syllables.

(But I must confess that I don't consider my ears to be suitable for competitive events!)

I did a frequency spectrum comparison and the differences are very minimal other than the low frequencies.

Jason Huggins · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:57 am Post subject:

1 - Audient
2 - 710

To my ears the second one seems to have some tube polish on it.

Steve Knight · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:19 am Post subject:

Annnnd the results are;

#1 710
#2 Audient

To answer your question Rob,..I ran the 710 with "no tube"...

The mic I was using was TLM-103,..I havent really tried out NTG-3 shotgun with the Audient yet...

georgethetech · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:57 am Post subject:

Beau Weaver runs his John Hardy M1 into a Lexicon Alpha, he's happy.
Many of my clients are using Alphas, they work great. Want to hear a possible difference? Spend 10x-20x more on the afore mentioned products.
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Steve Knight · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject:

I've always felt there's a certain amount of hype when it comes to pre-amps, as a colleague pointed out, most of them are made for recording voices that are singing rather than speaking; it's in that sustained tone where a pre amp can show it's "character"..

To me, Interfaces have taken a rather large step forward in the past few years, companies like Focusrite, UA, RME, and now Audient have put their pre-amp technolgy into "all-in-one" boxes which at least to me, makes having that thousand dollar pre less of an issue...

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

gotta admit I've always been skiddish about going straight into an interface, without an outboard pre, unless it was an extremely high-end interface......but the Audient may be the game changer.....

vkuehn · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject:

There is a bit of 'Humor Americana' from maybe 60 or 65 years ago. Television was arriving in many American neighborhoods for the first time and there was the unleashing of great demand for TV receivers.

I think he was a car dealer or salesman, but "Mad Man Muntz" started a chain of retail outlets selling the very cheapest of TV receivers. The legend goes like this: He hired the very brightest young Electrical Engineers to design the cheapest, skimy-est receiver possible. When they delivered the prototype, he then hired the 2nd tier engineers who didn't make the first cut and instructed them to remove parts from the prototype. If the set still worked, mark that part off the plans.

In our life time we have all probably purchased some item that we felt was built under that kind of regime. But with the arrival of Integrated Circuit Chips and solid state, There just aren't many parts to cut out. The chips are cheap in comparison to old components. Once someone creates a good audio chip, and puts a competitive price on it, what can a designer do to make one that is cheaper. Thus, even today's economy audio devices can easily come close to matching the performance of other devices that come with a trusted name, a cute box and other bells and whistles.

So to some extent, a V-O person who wants to create a superior sound technically may have to turn to room acoustics and isolation, mic choice and how you locate the mid, and the connecting wires and plugs.

Yanking out an amplifier and putting another one in its place is not nearly as dramatic as it was back in the days of tubes and discrete components soldered together.