VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Kim Fuller]

Watercress sandwiches?

[Fran McClellan]

Welcome, David!

I can't really add much to what has already been said...great advice from the best in the biz! I have studied with Nancy as well as other coaches (and I continue to study with various coaches whenever I get the opportunity). I have gotten many useful tools for my toolbox from every one of them. Sometimes you may find that you will get conflicting methods between coaches, which can be confusing. When that happens, just pick the method that works best for you and your booking ratio
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Back into the murky lurk from whence I came
--
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." - John Lennon

[David Gibson]

I thought about what Bob said and from the acting perspective he is right (geez! He would know!) However,

1) When you are relatively closer to the beginning of your career, don't you want to spend your money on someone or some people that will help you get ahead? Isn't that part of the equation of working with Nancy, Marc Cashman, etc. along with the great training?

2) I have an agent, but if I have the chops, don't I want someone with connections that may help me get signed by a more substantial agent? I was told that talent from the major agencies get first dibs on the bigger gigs. Is that true? 2b) Are there levels of agencies besides the major ones, then everyone else?

When I hear stories of how the big guys got their break, doesn't it come down to who you know? (Assuming that you bring something to the table about what you know.)
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David Marcus Gibson
TheGoldenThroatVOs.com

If it don't kill you, it makes you stronger

[Bob Bergen]

Hey David! Wow, there's so much in your question(s). I absolutely agree that this is a business about relationships. Who you know is vital! Timing is vital! The most vital part??? Talent. You may know Steven Spielberg well enough to attend his Passovers. But if you don't have the talent, the only part you are going to get is passing the chicken soup.

One of the biggest problems with today's vo industry is accessibility. People are able to get themselves out there much easier than when I started out 30 plus years ago. This is a good thing, and a bad thing. The only thing people are impressed with is impressive work. Put yourself out there prematurely and you have closed the door with everyone whom you didn't impress. It's hard to impossible to get second chances, especially with agents. The top agents get about 100 demos a week. Most are pretty good and they still have to pass on 90% due to the fact they have such a large stable. Mediocre demos get remembered as well. Often times they get saved in the reject file. So, if an actor resubmits at a later date, even if they have improved, often times the agent or their assistant just refers to the reject file, sees that they'd already passed, and doesn't even take the time to listen.

This is why, if you want to take your career to the top level, you don't even think demo until you know you are as good or better than everyone else. Now, you don't have to work at that level. With today's technology, you can dabble or you can reach for the stars, and everything in between. But don't fool yourself. Don't dabble and hope someone will throw you a bone and walk you into William Morris Endeavor.

As for coaching, personally I suggest study for the sake of studying. If a coach can refer you to buyers, great. But that should not be your goal with them, nor should that be a selling point to study with the coach. Referrals are indeed the best way to get a listen from agents. But don't pick a coach based on who they can introduce you to. Pick a coach who can take your skills to the next level. If, down the road, they find you are exceptional and have the clout to introduce you to some movers and shakers, great. But let that happen organically.

And, you are correct. The bigger agents do often get first dibs. Sometimes they get the first listen. Sometimes they get the auditions over the other agents. But smaller agents often get some copy the larger ones don't. Again, it's all about relationships, even for the agents. I do a lot of radio imaging. I have to have an agent with an imaging department if I'm to get the auditions. I live in LA. Agents out here don't represent imaging. But my agency has a NYC office that does. So, strategically, I knew I needed an agency that had office on both coasts.

Bottom line is, there are many factors to a successful career. Starts with the talent. Absolutely who you know. Timing is HUGE! Honestly, the power of the word "no" is OH so important. Often an actor sees no growth in their career because they say "yes" to everything. Risk is also very important. Gotta take a risk at the mic creatively. Gotta take financial risks. Often you need to take geographic risks, possibly moving to a location with more opportunities. Etc.

One thing I'll tell you is, you can never go into acting for the money. I think I posted something like this on another thread. I was at a holiday party a few weeks ago hosted by a top LA vo agent. Some of the top vo talent attended and this topic of people going into vo for the money came up. This is a byproduct of the internet and the availability for anyone to pursue vo anywhere. All of us at the party agreed that none of us went into this for the money. As actors we waited tables, had 2-5 day and night jobs to pay the bills. But for the kind of career we wanted, we never, ever settled. This meant you didn't take a vo job for the money or the experience. You studied for the experience. But you are as good as the company you keep. So, you say "no" to the $250 radio spot because for the kind of career we all wanted, that puts you in a category you didn't want to be associated with. If you are hunting for a top agent in the major markets, they are going to be much more impressed to see you have 5 national Class A spots under your belt than 500 low paying non union spots. The agent gets commission on the residuals of your class A spots. And, it means you come with built in relationships with top ad agencies doing national commercials.

Now, again, above I'm referring to a career at a certain level. You don't have to have those kinds of goals. But based on your questions, it sounds like having this kind of career or opportunity is indeed your career goal. The more specific you are with what you want, the more specific your strategies.

[Philip Banks]

Bob was typing as I typed AND wittered on the phone to Liz. So ..SEE above NOT below.

There is a difference between someone who is capable of helping you to get ahead and someone who is willing to help you get ahead. I know a number of people who offer their services for VO work and out of the list of friends, connections and serial networkers I am able to count on the fingers of both hands the people I would be happy to recommend. I am not a coach and even if I found myself being paid countless dollars for teaching I seriously doubt if that list would increase y many, if at all.

The goal should be to increase your marketable skills and to have the ability to market those skills. You can't "buy" that or CLICK HERE to get it.

The bigger agencies often do get first dibs on the bigger gigs because they have the talent on their books and the working relationship with the ad agency/producer. Many VO people believe that signing with a BIGGY is a right of passage, were that the case they wouldn't keep changing agencies.

The stories about how the big guys got their breaks are mostly PR spin as few people want to hear the truth. To spare their blushes, friends and colleagues do not fill in the blanks.

What you know is essential, who trusts you is essentialer. I made that last word up, you can have that, no charge.

[David Gibson]

I was a stockbroker for Smith Barney for 10 years. After the 2008 stock market crash, my priorities changed. Survival, the appreciation for good health for my family and me, and the realization that you only live once became of utmost importance.

I'm in the voiceover game because it is the pursuit of a life long internal passion. I should have started when I lived in NYC 20+ years ago, but I was too chicken. I'm an outgoing introvert. I have a huge thirst for knowledge about both the art and the business of voiceover. At the same time, I have goals and aspirations based upon pride and ego not money. I'll keep those personal, but I think you already have a hint of where I am trying to go.

2015 is going to be the year of the "toolbox", where my primary goal is to sharpen the skills that I have to make myself a better artist.

I'll also make sure I keep the dark chocolate away from the llama, too...

Thanks, all! Happy New Year!
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David Marcus Gibson
TheGoldenThroatVOs.com

If it don't kill you, it makes you stronger

[daveynate]

Happy New Year, everyone! My name's David Goldstein, and I, too, and just getting started on this VO journey. My first session with Nancy Wolfson is in three weeks, and I can't wait! David, if you want to study with her any time soon, I'd reach out now; it'll be two months between my session and when I booked it.

I second everyone who's said "Do your research." My first real introduction to VO came from a casting workshop I attend hosting an "Intro To VO" workshop taught by David H. Lawrence XVII. I got excited about the prospect of studying a new discipline, and the temptation would've been to sign up with Mr. Lawrence right then and there. But I'm older and wiser now, and started to see what else is out there. I got solid recommendations from the one pro I knew (she enthusiastically recommended you, Bob Bergen, and I'm hoping to study with you in April), and hit the internet. I found Edge Studio around the corner from me, and took their Intro workshop. Once again, I was tempted to sign up right away, but I kept digging. I've met with or talked to about a half dozen coaches, and will definitely work with more than one. It'll be Ms. Wolfson to start, with some extra coaching from Wally Burr. Aside from Mr. Bergen, I hope to study with the likes of Crispin Freeman and Dave Fennoy for Games and Animation. I've taken one of Pat Fraley's at-home courses, and would love to study with him some more.

Contradicting myself for a moment, Wally Burr made a great point to me when we met for the first time: when he heard I was looking at different coaches for different disciplines, he said "It's all acting. Commercials, cartoons, whatever...they all require similar acting skills." While I feel that's true to some degree, I'm curious how the rest of you feel about that. Assuming someone has previous acting training and experience (which I do), how beneficial is it to study the different areas of VO with coaches who specialize in only one of those areas?

Sorry for the long entry, and if you read all this way, you're a mensch.

Happy New Year!
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"If the shit fits, wear it."
Donald 'Duck' Dunn

http://davidgoldsteinvo.com

[Bob Bergen]

It is all acting! 100%!!! Wally, whom I've known since I was 14, is right on. Acting is bing truthful under imaginary circumstances. The audience has to believe you. They have to believe you are Hamlet, or the lead on a soap. Just like they have to believe you when you sell them products in a vo commercial. Or that you really do recommend classic rock as a station's imaging announcer. Or that you are a Smurf. Or stuttering pig. Vo is acting. Which is why I recommend folks study acting and improv before investing in vo classes. It's not about the voice. It's about what you do with the words. There's no such thing as a good voice. There's no such thing as a bad voice. There are just good actors and bad actors. With each genre of vo, you just shift the technical skills. But the performances still need to be honest, authentic, believable.

As for my 8 week LA workshop, thanks for your interest. April is full and there's a pretty long wait list for future classes. About 1-2 years. If you'd like to get on the list email me your phone number for my records. B

[frankbaum]

David, Ms. Wolfson has a series of lectures that partly parallel her coursework (but she has MORE actually IN the coursework). I bought them all and recommend them to well spoken individuals able to already tell "not a bad story".
Ms. Wolfson is able to demystify much of the "seemingly empty" scriptwork presented in auditions, enabling a "good first take", with more options available for second and third.
In a sense, her lecture work lays bare a bit of how many authors of advertising think, which empowers talent to join the song. If you can look and see where it is coming from, you are more capable of taking it there.
The horizons she talks about in both the audio and text files of the lectures stretch quite a bit wider than what you think you are hearing in even national spots. Reading and working with the ideas, when you do just sit and listen to the national spots, you will begin to recognize those tools, the priority points effectively accentuated, the audio story the mortar in the graphics/music message.
Several have already made the statement, "just study, and work what you study". Some of the best in the business have stated that they'll never stop study, because there is something to learn from nearly everyone. Being over-qualified should never stop you from telling the story the way it was intended to be told to cause that desired listener impression and interpretation. fmb
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if you never try you always fail