 |
VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!
Established November 10, 2004
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11075
Location: Portgordon, Scotland
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:48 pm Post subject: 1st August - Interesting topic - Vocal fry et al |
 |
|
BBC Radio 4 Woman's Hour http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b063dcg4
33mins 50 secs into broadcast, you can scroll along to get to the right part. Very enlightening. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mike Harrison
M&M
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 2029
Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:20 am Post subject: Re: 1st August - Interesting topic - Vocal fry et al |
|
|
| Philip Banks wrote: | | Very enlightening. |
Absolutely! Thanks, Philip.
Before getting to my observations... I don't know; I'm merely asking: Using the term used in the interview, why are people like the Kardashians considered "women with power?" Is this simply for the shallow reason that they're on TV? Beyond that...
What follows are my own observations, awakened by what was discussed in the interview. First, though, let me point out that it doesn't matter at all to me how laypeople speak or what their spelling abilities may be. My interest in this is only as it relates to voice-over and related media. Second, I was only an average student. I did just OK in some areas, certainly failed my share of tests, and did not attend college. I can't define the parts of speech, but there are very basic things I do remember.
The interview focused on women's speech affectations, but we all know men are guilty to varying degrees, as well. And I agree that many speech affectations can shoot a person in the foot in their attempt to land a (better) job or credibly hold a position of authority. Like it or not, our ability to communicate effectively and on par with our peers is important.
Again recalling part of the interview, statements that end with "so, yeah," leaving the listener wondering what's to follow – but nothing follows, is similar to a pattern I'd begun noticing only within the last couple of years, where people are beginning statements with the word "So" without first having introduced a scenario. "So" – in the context it is incorrectly used in this manner – is supposed to refer to something previously mentioned, and is a result, such as: "It was raining today and I didn't have my umbrella, so I got soaked." To begin a statement with "so" (a result) without having established a scenario earlier – because it is an incorrect use of the word "so" – leaves the listener wondering what they missed. My experience is, like uptalk/upspeak or vocal fry, this is another speech pattern that someone who has never previously spoken this way will hear it and begin using it.
I don't necessarily think that everyone who uses upspeak/uptalk or other affectations are looking for validation (as was stated in the interview); I think it's just a manner of speaking they've latched onto because they like the way it sounds. I can't imagine why else. I once questioned a VO coach I'd been affiliated with when he didn't correct students who pronounced the ending of words spelled "ing" as "een" (as in "talkeen"). He said he didn't correct them because – in his words – "it sounds cute." If this is what an alleged voice-over coach believes, why is it a stretch to believe that people who use speech affectations do so because – to them – it sounds cool?
But it's also quite possible that many of those who use words in improper context (improperly beginning statements with "so" or ending statements with "so, yeah" for example) or are doing so for any reason other than they simply don't know. This is similar to the phenomena surrounding the contractions "could've," "must've, "should've" and "would've." Using social media showed me that a surprising number of people believe they are (hearing) the words "could of," "must of," should of" and "would of." Using the word "of" in these contexts is wrong; these word pairings are as unrelated as "shoe flagpole," for example. Other similar examples are the unfamiliarity of the differences between "your" and "you're;" "there," "their" and "they're;" and "to," "too" and "two." These are indications that those who use/misuse these words either didn't learn, have forgotten that they are incorrect, or simply can't be bothered.
In 1992, then-Vice President Dan Quayle was embarrassed and humiliated by his incorrect spelling of "potato." More recently, Sarah Palin was called out for using a word that didn't exist: "refudiate."
Please let me again point out that I don't care how laypeople choose to speak or whether they can spell simple, common words. But I do find it concerning when those in voice-over and related media display what appears to be a less-than average grasp of speech/grammar/spelling. These are people whose very livelihoods are based on words and their meanings, and effective communication.
We can't forget how babies learn to talk: by emulating what they hear from their parents. If parents are either unaware their speech habits are less-than grammatically correct or they don't care…
Is this how dictionaries, grammar and spelling books come to be re-written?
I will not close this using another seemingly popular ism "I'm just saying," because – while I know the meaning of each of those words – I honestly do NOT know what that phrase is supposed to convey.
Them thar's muh too cents.
_________________
Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.
Last edited by Mike Harrison on Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lee Gordon
A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6864
Location: West Hartford, CT
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: 1st August - Interesting topic - Vocal fry et al |
|
|
| Mike Harrison wrote: | | the phenomena surrounding the contractions "could've," "must've, "should've" and "would've." Using social media showed me that a surprising number of people believe they are (hearing) the words "could of," "must of," should of" and "would of." Using the word "of" in these contexts is wrong; these word pairings are as unrelated as "shoe flagpole," for example. Other similar examples are the unfamiliarity of the differences between "your" and "you're;" "there," "their" and "they're;" and "to," "too" and "two." These are indications that those who use/misuse these words either didn't learn, have forgotten that they are incorrect, or simply can't be bothered. |
A couple of my favorite examples came from commercials I was given to read for a radio station. One script, written by one of the station's account execs, was for a farm stand. It mentioned a number of produce items the stand had for sale, including "eggcorn squash." At first, the producer and I thought perhaps he had hurriedly combined "eggplant, corn and squash" into a single thing, but we eventually figured out he meant "acorn squash."
Even better was one from a different AE at the same station. The client was a paint store or painting contractor. The spot was about painting ceilings and made reference to the "Sixteenth Chapel." 
_________________
Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Harrison
M&M
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 2029
Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah... people spelling based only on what they think they hear. Those are pretty good examples.
One that made me fall off the chair was a young woman on Facebook who was parroting what she'd heard about the "dummy down of America."
But sometimes it goes beyond just spelling what they think they heard. When I used to watch Judge Judy (it's still entertaining), some litigants came up with some doozies (yes, they were so good I wrote them down): "I borrowed him the money." "A bunch of profound words I can't say on television." And "It was forgotabouten."
But perhaps the award-winner was years ago, when a friend working as a nurse heard a woman telling the doctor, "I sleep in the fecal position."
There is a need for a facepalm emoticon.
_________________
Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
todd ellis
A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 10529
Location: little egypt
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | "Sixteenth Chapel." |
i always wondered where the other 15 chapels were.
_________________
"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott Pollak
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1903
Location: Looking out at the San Juan mountains
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:29 am Post subject: Re: 1st August - Interesting topic - Vocal fry et al |
|
|
| Mike Harrison wrote: |
Again recalling part of the interview, statements that end with "so, yeah," leaving the listener wondering what's to follow – but nothing follows, is similar to a pattern I'd begun noticing only within the last couple of years, where people are beginning statements with the word "So" without first having introduced a scenario. "So" – in the context it is incorrectly used in this manner – is supposed to refer to something previously mentioned, or a result, such as: "It was raining today and I didn't have my umbrella, so I got soaked." To begin a statement with "so" (a result) without having established a scenario earlier – because it is an incorrect use of the word "so" – leaves the listener wondering what they missed. My experience is, like uptalk/upspeak or vocal fry, this is another speech pattern that someone who has never previously spoken this way will hear it and begin using it. |
I, too, have noticed the proliferation of this trend of beginning sentences with "So...." (it's annoyingly noticeable with contestants on "Shark Tank" responding to questions), and along with vocal fry, I can't think of anything much more annoying, vocally, at least. Awful trends.
_________________
Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.
www.voicebyscott.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougVox
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 1706
Location: Miami
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Recent direction from a client:
"As for the tone…give me two…one slow and one fast paste."
_________________
Doug Turkel (tur-KELL)
Voiceover UNnouncer®
UNnouncer.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chrisvoco
Club 300
Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 380
Location: Local
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Language - English, at least - is falling apart. I blame it on the social media thingies and their general encouragement (requirement, in twitter's case) to keep things short. Abbreviations rule the world now; the ability to actually spell is irrelevant.
I'd like to take this opportunity to derail myself and complain about the thoroughly sentence-less "communication" that seems to be the hallmark of social media.
"That time you went in the bathroom," or "That feeling when you sit on a machete," or the ubiquitous and detestable "This." What's the thing these days with bizarre fragments?
The answer to that question you always asked in school, "why do we need to learn how to diagram sentences?"
It, it would seem, is... THIS.
Oh, well. Darmok and Jalad.
At Tanagra, of course.
Or maybe it was in the bathroom. On the machete.
Yeah - that.
Thank you. I mean, TY, and HAND.
_________________
Finally, Ford stops starting to say things and starts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chrisvoco
Club 300
Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 380
Location: Local
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
I forgot to bitch about "myself." I can give something to myself, do something for myself or about myself, but you cannot do anything for, to or about "myself," nor can it do anything for you, take any action or assume any particular state of being.
Okay. All done.
_________________
Finally, Ford stops starting to say things and starts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13023
Location: Camp Cooper
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think it is a perfect scream that the first "expert" our hostess has on in the programme Philip cites totally uses uptalk AND run-on sentences, even as she explains why it's damaging to use them.
_________________
DBCooperVO.com
IMDB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lee Gordon
A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6864
Location: West Hartford, CT
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott Pollak wrote: |
I, too, have noticed the proliferation of this trend of beginning sentences with "So...." (it's annoyingly noticeable with contestants on "Shark Tank" responding to questions),. |
It is nearly ubiquitous on Science Friday on NPR. Ira Flatow will ask the guest scientist du jour a question, and the answer nearly always begins with, So ..."
| DougVox wrote: |
give me two…one slow and one fast paste." |
I would be stuck.
| chrisvoco wrote: |
Oh, well. Darmok and Jalad.
At Tanagra. |
Kiazi's children, their faces wet.
_________________
Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ccpetersen
With a Side of Awesome
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 3708
Location: In Coherent
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Shaka, when the walls fell...
_________________
Charter Member: Threadjackers Local 420 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chrisvoco
Club 300
Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 380
Location: Local
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Damn, I do love Star Trek.
_________________
Finally, Ford stops starting to say things and starts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kristin Lennox
Flight Attendant
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 858
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
My 20-yr-old daughter has one on-going eLearning client, and it's only in the last couple of recordings that I've noticed her very ingrained vocal fry. It's not Khardashian-bad (she mostly falls into it on pick-up words that start with a vowel, like "and"...), but it's noticeable, to me, at least, and I've grown to hate that spiky waveform that gives it away... 
_________________
Always look on the bright side of life.
Dee doo. Dee doot doot doo dee doo.
my website |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
