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Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13023
Location: Camp Cooper
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 Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:18 pm Post subject: Strong Language from SAG/AFTRA |
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I have a thread going over on Face-Tube-In about the tenor of the language the unions chose to use in their most recent newsletter.
Here's the link to that:
Deebs's Face-Tube-in Thread
At the risk of having you lose the will to live, here is the text of the "Best in the Business" newsletter.
| Quote: | SAG-AFTRA recently held town hall follow-up meetings in L.A. and N.Y. with over 160 commercial performers attending. We gave a brief overview of the successes we’ve had with the initiative so far, followed by a productive Q&A session. Valuable feedback and ideas were heard from members who were ready to do their part to help the initiative. A similar meeting will be taking place with the Dallas-Fort Worth Local in the coming weeks, with more to come across the country.
· Since our last update, SAG-AFTRA has caught a large telecommunications company, national car company, household product company, credit card company and toy company signed to the Commercials Contract attempting to produce non-union commercials. Thanks to the growing amount of information sent in by members like you, we turned these non-union commercials into union commercials. Please continue to report information on non-union commercials online here or call (877) 280-6705.
· SAG-AFTRA has identified more performers working off the card since the last update. Disciplinary charges are heard and decided by committees of fellow SAG-AFTRA members. Consequences for working off the card may include fines, suspension or expulsion from the union.
· In addition to successful meetings with talent agents in L.A. and N.Y., SAG-AFTRA recently held a webinar for agents in markets outside of these areas. We discussed the initiative and agents asked questions and provided additional helpful input.
· SAG-AFTRA has recently met with over 20 casting directors in L.A. and N.Y. to discuss the state of the commercials industry and get their input on how we can grow union work opportunities. We intend to continue building relationships with the casting community, all over the country. |
I'm disappointed, to put it mildly, that these guys are still describing their position in strong-arm-tactic terms. The clients are jerks, Member actors are jerks.
Yes, they are enforcing their well-stated rules, but I am just not wildly fond of my union bragging about using punishments as an apparent one-size-fits-all solution.
Wouldn't it be great for our union to support our efforts, help us keep the rate floors high, embrace and educate clients and vendors about the real value of a splendid-quality actor? —without having to resort the "because if you don't we'll bash you face in" tactics of the Old Teamsters?
If I wanted a bully to represent me I'd. . uh. .. oh never mind. I don't want to run afoul of my own "Rule 1" since he's running for president now.
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Last edited by Deirdre on Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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todd ellis
A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 10528
Location: little egypt
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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wow. just ... wow. i see another 13 page thread coming on. but ... MAN, just ... wow.
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"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?
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Lee Gordon
A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6864
Location: West Hartford, CT
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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The membership exists to serve needs of the union. Isn't that how it's supposed to work? 
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Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
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Bruce
Boardmeister
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 7977
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Gee, why am I reminded of this sign, which I've seen versions of in many offices:
B
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VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005
I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. . |
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Bish
3.5 kHz
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:11 am Post subject: |
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On this issue the union's position is archaic. If a union member can't get union work then waiting tables for sub-minimum wages cannot be the prescribed remedy any more. There are bills to pay and non-union jobs that pay scale+ to pay them with. The union should be working hard to bring these jobs under contract and not punishing the victims of their historical mismanagement. People cannot talk openly about the issue because the zealots start a witch-hunt and bury the issue under Global Rule One tub-thumping and letter-of-the-law punishments. Solving a problem involves more than intimidating people into not talking about it.
Why do they focus on punishing the errant (pragmatic) member and not the contracted production house who's going off-card with a "do not work" order? Oh, silly me... the production house would then just go "Screw you, I'm outta here," and walk away from union members officially and completely.
They are not addressing the needs of the working community. They promise change, but then stifle the voices that call for it.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls. |
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Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!
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Mike Harrison
M&M
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 2029
Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Jeffrey Kafer wrote: | | How proud they should be of punishing those who are trying to scratch out a living! |
A plan that seems to be all the rage these days.
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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.
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todd ellis
A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 10528
Location: little egypt
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:43 am Post subject: |
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it's been said - but i'll say it again. i am a "pre-union" VO talent ... i do not exist. if i don't exist, how can the union care about me?
i'm not complaining - i'm happy as a clam in my non-existence.
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"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?
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ChrisMezzolesta
Club 300
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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And yet when challenged, they revert to their position of supposed moral superiority and vilification. Now I did indeed challenge the obvious apologism and baseless rah-rahing going on in a very direct way, but one participant made a very stupid error. He assumed that I was non-union and doing lowball work, and suggested I "eat my shit lowball work", as it were, and choke on it. Such sputtering is exactly what I would have expected from someone like him, and that certainly destroyed any credibility he may have had as a so-called industry professional. They simply refuse to acknowledge that the problem might possibly have stemmed from them, not non-union actors, not 4A agencies, not P2Ps, but SAG-AFTRA. In other words, 'you can't handle the truth' and other movie quotes. I intended to point this error out to this person but the thread had been pulled by the time I hit Send - sorry DB. But I am so sick & tired of the moral high horse these people are on when they clearly do not deserve it. Thousands of VOs not being served by the union, tons outside LA not even making a living, and they give their head guy a raise. OK then. It is in this vacuum that WoVO is attempting to make statements that are at least helpful, without getting involved in the labor end. A more supportive & responsive union would be great, but as long as there are people like this A-hole championing their cause, existing only to vilify innocent VOs, it's a lost cause.
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Chris Mezzolesta, Voice Talent
800.356.5519 www.voiceatile.com |
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Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13023
Location: Camp Cooper
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I had to pull the thread because it had become embarrassing.
I was amazed at the vitriol— Why was this staunch union member so passionate?
Are we trench warriors that much of a threat? or is this the normal position of a privileged elite who can't bear any sort of challenge?
And sure, he earned his privileged place in the biz. Worked like a dog and has a fabulous agent and he's living in LA. But those 2 elements put him in an exceptionally lofty position. He's near the best work with an intermediary who has the keys to the best work.
Those things aren't shared by most of us. I don't have an agent in LA or New York. Does that make me a less-worthy actor? Maybe so! but quite frankly, I am too busy working to fight about it any more.
We are working all the time, and we're the ones who know what the undercarriage of union work looks like.
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Gregory Best
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 1853
Location: San Diego area (east of Connie and south and east of Bailey)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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DB, it seems like some in the union are insecure. If I remember correctly, even Don LaFontain was suspect that we mostly non-union folks at the first VOICE in 2007 were out to steal his work. Meeting us there changed his mind and he was much more open. The AFTRA lady (using the term loosely) running things was a witch (with a capital  was quite rude and unprofessional. She was quite rude to my wife Marcy who photographed the event. Frank and Don eventually put her in her place back stage. Don and I exchanged emails afterward. He wrote a note and included a comment about Marcy "nice wife".
I think they are really afraid we will join the union and take their work or the work will become nonunion and we will take the work. Maybe the think (SAG AFTRA) that if they ignore us trenchies we will just go away. I would love to go union IF I was guaranteed enough work to pay the bills. I don't know if they will ever change.
It has probably been at least a decade since AFTRA closed its San Diego office and we are not a fly-over state but are just 70 miles south of LA.
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Gregory Best
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ChrisMezzolesta
Club 300
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I certainly didn't mean to send things out of control, but I feel that Pat Duke really went over the line. So much so that he was 100% wrong in his attack on me (I don't do lowball work, I don't do buyouts etc.)...but he couldn't read it for the froth coming from his mouth.
One thing that did come out of it was that the other 'invited' person Ilyssa Fradin msg'd me directly to apologize for insulting me and everyone else with her "Of course we all hate ficore FEE PAYING NON MEMBERS, but..." statement and to perhaps try to clarify her union position. She asked me, if the Union was f***ing up (her word), please tell her how - - - things turned civil very quickly as I didn't respond with an FU but thanked her for reaching out. Who knows, even tho I am still in the gathering opinions & measuring my words phase (I am late in my promised reply), maybe there's an opening here as I think she is on a board in some local.
So many are just tunnelvision on the whole industry - the WHOLE industry including outside the coasts. Myopic is the word, I believe. So if anyone has any thoughts, feel free to email me, I wanna make it with substance and reality, and stay away from anger (if possible)...I just feel so disillusioned with them ever since the 2000 strike, and the failed (2003?) merger, we are so far down the food chain and nobody there cares unless it's the same old tired rhetoric. I dunno - someone's gotta make trouble for people to open their ears I suppose.....
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Chris Mezzolesta, Voice Talent
800.356.5519 www.voiceatile.com |
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Lee Gordon
A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6864
Location: West Hartford, CT
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisMezzolesta wrote: | | things turned civil very quickly |
That's a refreshing change of pace.
By the way, while we talk about the disconnect between the experience of union members living and working in NY and LA and those in the rest of the country, there is what I perceive as an even bigger divide. Neither SAG nor AFTRA was founded to look after the interests of voiceoverists. They were created, first and foremost. for actors in movies and on radio and TV, respectively. And while it can be argued that voiceoverists are voice actors, we are not at or near the top of the priority list for the union, even in the big cities.
Most of what you do hear from the union about voiceover negotiations has to do with major studios and networks and the 4-As. The majority of my clients are none of those, and I suspect I am far from alone.
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Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
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Gregory Best
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 1853
Location: San Diego area (east of Connie and south and east of Bailey)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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What are 4-A's?
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Gregory Best
greg@gregorybest.com |
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Lee Gordon
A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6864
Location: West Hartford, CT
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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4-As are the top rung of advertising agencies.
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Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
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