VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Mike Harrison]

Someone producing audio for a video for a global pharmaceutical brand has requested a quote, additionally asking "how many changes would be included." The request also states that the client would like to record today, if possible.

The script is a single page, but – despite my 30+ years doing corporate work – I have to wonder: as their goal is clearly to get this finished ASAP, why would they ask about changes? Can they not tell by the words on the page if those are the words they want to convey?

Apart from that, the person making the request is in a South American country and he has a Google email account (apparently no website), so that raises at least a yellow flag in my mind, as well.

Thoughts?
_________________
Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

[Lee Gordon]

After about the fourth revision on an "urgent" project, I finally asked my client what was up. He told me his client was very difficult to pin down. My guy would send his guy a script for approval but wouldn't get a a definitive answer before the logistics required that he shoot the video and start editing. His client is basically an "I'll know it when I see it" kind of guy and is willing to pay for the privilege.

So asking "how many changes are included" isn't necessarily a request for unlimited free revisions. It's your opportunity to clarify everybody's expectations as to what you'll do as part of the initial fee and under what conditions the extra charges kick in. And if it turns out they balk at what you tell them, they were probably going to be a bigger pain in the ass than you wanted to deal with anyway.
_________________
Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice

[Mike Harrison]

Thanks, Lee.

Let me ask this: for scripts under, say, three minutes, up to how much time (number of words) would be considered fair for no-charge revisions? And how many times should a client be allowed to take advantage of that (again, for a script under three minutes) before the line is drawn?
_________________
Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

[Bish]

For me, it very much depends on the client (what they are paying, if they are new, or if I have history).
My standard terms and conditions vary all over the place (so they are hardly "standard" I suppose). Basically I indicate that my screw-ups are fixed free, and I include one round of revisions (up to 10% of the script). Revisions greater than that are pro rated against the original job rate (subject to a minimum session fee).

Things change all the time especially when dealing with pharma or legal. It is often not the fault of your client, but of his client (or the legal department, which is often given final sign-off on the finished product after having previously approved the script).

So, in the case of the three minute video (say 450 words) I may allow a 45 word revision for free (in a single revision session). I do not give this free revision if the client is only paying my min session fee... I consider it a value-add for clients paying a more "generous" rate. Which is why I always base my conditions on the job itself rather than a firm rule.
_________________
Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

[Mike Harrison]

Thanks, Bish.

As this example would be a small job (actually under two minutes), I intend to quote my minimum. And I understand that legal departments often do screw things up. But, as I said, if they're looking to get this short script done ASAP, it really makes sense for them to get all their little ducks in a row before recording, so they can then move on. Establishing deadlines is pointless if they keep going back to make changes.

One great thing I learned from a client (a project manager from Westinghouse) back in the late 70s was: "Work smarter, not harder." It makes complete sense.
_________________
Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

[Lee Gordon]

My policy is pretty much the same as Bish's (and equally "standard"). We're in a service business, so I always want to give my clients the best possible service. Therefore, I try not to appear to nickel and dime clients and charge for every little thing, even if charging might be an accepted practice. But you soon learn who the abusers are and don't hesitate to charge for the nuisance factor.
_________________
Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice

[Mike Harrison]

I completely agree. I want to convey I'll allow a reasonable amount of revisions, but there's also the need to be clear so that they don't get the impression I'll provide revisions until the cows come home (about 4:30, so I'd been told).

As they were hoping to record today, if possible, I'd given my rate several hours ago, but haven't heard back.
_________________
Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

[Bruce]

Then you get a lovely client like mine for whom I do a modestly complex, 5-minute medical narration and days later they ask for a few copy changes, saying "please invoice us for this". And then they do it again. Then they've decided to change the name of the product so I get a full fee to redo the whole thing. Then two more rounds of paid copy changes and finally a total re-read back to the old product name, fully paid. And they pay by wire transfer the day after each one of these is done.

Then they act like it's such an imposition on me, and I smile and tell them it's not a problem at all. God love those clients who treat you like the professional you strive to be.


B
_________________
VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005

I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .

[Mike Harrison]

Yes! I do have a couple of clients like that, too.
_________________
Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

[Lee Gordon]

[Philip Banks]

A client asks you to do a job and they agree the fee plus use if applicable. Every decision maker checks the wording, they agree on the choice of voice and the direction. All relevant information is communicated to the Voice Over who is working alone so there is no input from the client, director, decision maker and no live recorded webcast on the subject with input from WoVo leadership; the later avoids confusion.

The voice over has a minimum session fee. This is a fee derived from their knowledge of how much they need to earn, how much it costs to run their business and their position in the market place NOT by asking others who would need 7 guesses as to the day of the week and still get it wrong.

Dear Voice Over, how much for revisions?

Dear I do not pay for your errors, changes and omissions,

MINIMUM SESSION FEE

Dear Voice Over, what are the alternatives?

Dear I do not pay for your errors, changes and omissions,

Live studio based session, live ISDN session, direct me live over a phone patch.

Dear Voice Over, mmmmmmmmmmokay but what happens if after that there are revisions?

Dear I do not pay for your errors, changes and omissions,

MINIMUM SESSION FEE?

We should always help a client who has a problem as that's good business but remember this is business.

THINK ON!

[Mike Harrison]

Thank you, Philip.

I'm not the type to bore my peers with my background, but I'll do it here only to illustrate a point. When I worked on-staff as audio producer (and narrator) and second typesetter for a corporate multimedia production house beginning in the late 70s, our clients were major telecommunications, medical, pharmaceutical, publishing and other industrial companies.

Even the first word processors didn't exist yet, so scripts were typed on paper using a typewriter (yes, it was electric). As these were "A/V" scripts, the left side of the page contained all visual information, with the corresponding narration on the right. All done manually, without the use of easily formatted tables, columns, etc.

The script writer then proofread the typed version before it was submitted to the client for review. During this stage, any necessary changes were made (usually with a pen) and the writer then incorporated those changes into the script, which was then re-typed.

While I'd never heard any reference to their involvement back then, I'll assume the client's legal department looked over the final version before the script was recorded.

As these presentations were the precursor of PowerPoint, they consisted of 35mm slides. The text for the slides – supplied by the client – would first go to typesetting. The type (produced on photo paper) was manually cut apart and the text for each slide pasted into the layout format before a photo negative was made (requiring the use of lithographic film and chemical processing). Color gels were manually cut from large sheets using X-acto blades and painstakingly applied (frequently line-by-line) to the film negative for each slide, which were then lit from underneath and shot on the animation/slide camera before being processed, then manually cut apart and mounted.

With all of these materials and labor involved, you'd better believe that clients made every effort to ensure everything was correct beforehand because they knew every revision was billable.

With today's technology making things much simpler and less time-consuming, why does it seem there's also less thinking going on or attention being paid? Especially with companies so focused on profits and not wasting any money, from where did the mindset "we won't know whether we like it until we hear (and/or see) the finished product" come? And why do some professional vendors entertain that notion?

I do happily provide some no-charge revisions for what are clearly occasional mistakes; a word or phrase here and there. But when entire thoughts or concepts are changed after the fact – perhaps because the client was rushing to meet an alleged "deadline," which miraculously gets ignored on a whim – that should not come out of the pocket of those providing professional services.
_________________
Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

[Lance Blair]

That same dude wrote to me too.

The script was weird. Weird content, weird ideas, weird translation.

I told him I wasn't available for the next few days and gave him a rate he probably wouldn't like, since he's in Ecuador.

I've got too many fish to fry (big & small) to mess with the small fry.
_________________
Skype: globalvoiceover
and now, http://lanceblairvo.com the blog is there now too!