VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

DenaliDave · Last edited by DenaliDave on Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:53 pm; edited 2 times in total

Hi guys!

I just thought I'd throw my .2 about this new mic I recently acquired. I've been pretty happy with the two mics I already own (CAD e100s and TLM-102) but after talking and befriending "Mr. Grinch" I decided to see what he had to offer. I'm a huge nerd, so reading about transformers, capacitors, circuit boards and whatnot really was interesting. I love all that stuff but don't have the time or room to mod/build my own clone.

I've never used a U87 of any kind, so I don't really have a "benchmark" as to what one is "supposed to sound" with my voice. What I can say, however, is that I am very, very impressed/pleased with the mic.

The CAD e100s sounds great, but it does bring out more low frequencies in my voice. I sound deeper with more bass. This new mic doesn't quite do that, and I think it actually represents my voice as it is. I would say that it sounds a bit more natural?

Mr. Grinch is a member of the DIY group that's been making these U87 clones, and is using Styroflex capacitors, Cinemag transformers and dual head baskets on his mics. He also does his own powder coating and has a bunch of colors. I decided to go with a textured copper color and black head basket:

That's actually a picture of the mic I received before he boxed and shipped it to me.

I know there is a guy that mods mics, and Advanced Audio in Canada that makes a U87-like microphone themselves. I looked into both of those options.

It took a bit longer than I anticipated to get the mic, as he didn't just send me one he already had. He made the mic, tested it, and then sent it. Start to finish, about two weeks for him to build/test/ship the mic to me here in Alaska. For less than $600, I think it's a really great mic.

I've got it inside of a Kaotica Eyeball, and have been using it for the past few days for audio books. I did a quick back and forth between my TLM-102 and the clone. I'll link to both Soundcloud (lower quality streaming) and a Dropbox (raw WAV) file. No EQ/compression or anything was done. Just record, save-as and share.

Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712c8ych44ffek7/TLM102%20vs.%20GrinchU87.wav?dl=0

I've nailed down the electrical interference now on the TLM-102, the outlet has a bad ground Frown

The comparison is also a little unfair, in that the TLM-102 has a Kaotica Eyeball, and the U87 clone has just a reflection filter. I've got the eyeball on the clone now, and it doesn't add any "mud" or cause any change to the sound. Combined with the 50+ acoustic panels and bass traps, the room is now really pretty quiet!
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vkuehn

DenaliDave

Philip Banks · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:14 am Post subject:

No such thing as a U87 clone as they are technically known as NOT U87. I have a Ferrari clone made by three guys in Germany, Brad, Mike and Wilhelm, it's call a BMW 3 series station wagon.

I've heard the Kaotica in lab conditions and it sounds AWFUL. There are a number of people from music radio production backgrounds who may think it sounds fine because they're used to hearing people with BASS EQ at +34000, far too close to the mic and CTF (compressed to f****). In our world, the world of over what we call voice none of these things are good things except for the pies, obviously.

Any further posts in the gear section which contain utter nonsense ( most of them) or which I simply do not care for (all of them) will be dealt with by Constable Atkins and her attack dog, Alan.

Bish · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:12 am Post subject:

I hate the "clone" thing as well. Now, if this guy is hand-building a microphone in the style of a u87 (... I mean, how many ways are there if you ignore all the the Blue Bullshit) and it stands up as a damned fine mic for <$600, then he should be shooting for his own space in the marketplace. His pricing is a fairly nice sweet-spot, and if he can fill it with a quality product that compares well to something costing far more, then good luck to him.

We all try to sell ourselves on our uniqueness... I don't want to be branded as a Philip Banks clone, or like Philip but cheaper (silly example as he's nothing like me, but you get the point).

I'm wondering if this mic would get a far better stab at the market if it didn't brand itself as a u87 clone, but rather as a quality hand-crafted, customizable, American-made microphone.
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Lee Gordon · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:32 am Post subject:

My question is, is this mic a clone of the Rode NT1-A, or is the NT1-A a clone of this? Shocked

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Frank F · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:33 am Post subject:

I have built several DU87's over the years. They are all great microphones but they are not Neumann U-87's. They also contain no orginal DNA.

The Mic you have allowed us to listen to is nowhere near a U-87. That said, it does have some endearing qualities. Are those qualities worth the price? You have to be the judge.

F2
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DenaliDave · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:10 am Post subject:

Thanks guys! Well, I'm pretty happy with it and it seems to hold its own against my other mics. I've run a few more tests with it, and I think it sounds better than my TLM-102 which cost more.

For my purposes, I'm getting gigs with my setup, so whatever I'm doing seems to be working for me! Laugh

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"The wise ones fashioned speech with their thought, sifting it as grain is sifted through a sieve." - Buddha
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paulstefano · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:28 am Post subject:

DenaliDave · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:02 am Post subject:

Jason Huggins · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:23 pm Post subject:

I did a lot of looking into this myself on multiple occasions and I think the term "clone" is misused by a lot of people. The Joly NT1a is not a clone and neither is the Advanced Audio CM87.

The Joly NT1a is just an EQ'd NT1a with a U87-style capsule and a more open headbasket.

The Advanced Audio is a U87-style NEW design microphone. These guys designed a new microphone in an attempt to copy the SOUND of a U87, not trying to be an exact replica.

The build that Grinch makes (that he didn't design, he just assembles) is the only mic that is close to be an actual "clone" as its board is a reverse-engineered copy of the vintage U87 board so the signal is passing through an electrically identical path with components that are technically equivalent (I know, not exactly). Obviously the capsule is not the same and there are multiple versions and manufacturers of the capsule who produce them to the original specifications, but we all know differences exist and some are better than other, and NONE are identical.

I used a Joly mod NT1a for a while and after using U87s, it doesn't sound like a U87...it is probably the furthest of the bunch (which tells you a little about how my ear has developed over the years. I was scolded harshly by Mike Sommer for saying it sounded "amazing.") I sold it and moved on. I never went through with a build of my own or purchasing one from Grinch because I decided that if I wanted a great sounding mic, I could get one with a used original mic with a respected pedigree (used 416) that sounds good enough on my voice for the same price and if I wanted the pedigree of a U87, I had to buy a U87.

So, Joly NT1a - NOT a clone. Advanced Audio CM87 - NOT a clone. D87 build is the only one that is really a clone but you can't build and sell those as your own because the board design already exists and I'd be willing to bet it's patented.

Bish · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:36 pm Post subject:

Ena had been telling everyone how her new u87 clone was just as good as a Neumann for barely the price of a case of Milk Stout. True to his word, Philip did the summoning.

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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Denali Dave,

A bonafide U87/U87ai is an awesome tool and to be honest I am skeptical of mic makers who claim to have cloned it. And believe me, I have tried a few of them.

I have heard of the Grinch clone but never used one so I can't comment on it. But if you like it that is the main thing. In the meantime I recommend at some point finding a studio or engineer or friend who has a real U87 and getting familiar with it.

But you need to have a pretty good room to use a U87ai successfully.
If the room acoustics and isolation are less than stellar, the other industry standard, Sennheiser MKH 416 might be a better option, if you want to go with one of the industry "standards".

Jason Huggins · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:23 pm Post subject:

Dayo · Cinquecento Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 544 Location: UK

The heart of a U87 is the incredible Neumann K67/K870 capsule. If you don't have that, you don't have a U87 - or anything close. Even the design of the head basket makes a significant contribution to the tone.

Has everyone seen this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCO95wBAIt0
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