VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Deirdre]

Hey Kids--
I have been looking at browser-based, responsive, modern phpBB message boards which will be modern and responsive and browser-based... and I have also been urged to recommend/offer/ask all y'all about DISCORD and/ or SLACK which are apps that you can have on whatever device you like.

With a new phpBB board we'll have just what we've had for the last 20+ years,
but without Comic Sans.
I mean, c'mon!
... as Paddy O would say.
Private text messages, the ability to share videos, direct sharing of photos.
I'm sure there are other extensions because the architecture is updated all the time.
A forever archive of our online brilliance, a familiar layout of content.

With Slack or Discord it won't literally be "VO-BB.com" but it can be a standalone instance of those applications so you won't have to search for it.
Slack and Discord both offer built-in audio-visual private chatting as well as text.

Free Slack only holds messages for 90 days. Pairs Video chats only. Slack first-tier of paid-level is $5 per person per month.
Judas Priest-- we won't be doing that.

Discord is pretty spiffy with private "servers" (one's own community) that can have Channels like we have Categories.
Audio and AV chats with pairs and groups.
Super-easy to share online media.
Forever holding of posts.

Here's what it looks like.

No matter what--I believe I can build out just about anything we want within these frameworks.
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DBCooperVO.com
IMDB

[Mike Paul]

Let me offer these words of wisdom from the school of hard knocks, which I learned while building product for web and mobile:

Never build your business one somebody else's platform. They can pull the rug, change the rules, raise the rents, control your destiny. Let's break this down.

Back in the old days, the spirit of the web was open and free; it was all about sharing information openly, on the open web. I keep saying open. Let's talk about why.

Slack and Discord are opposite of open. They're both what you might call "walled gardens". Instead, they are closed systems designed to lock you in and make you pay. The reason for this is that these companies have a business model. VO-BB does not.

Not to mention: They're also the wrong "tools" for the job; and I say they're tools because that's why they were built in the first place. Slack was borne from a video game company's use of Internet Relay Chat (IRC) so they could chat about their projects. Discord's just the gamer version of Slack, with a lot more community features.

As such, these chat tools are for rapid-fire company internal communication like chats, file sharing, video calls, lists, quasi-word documents, things like that. This can be interesting in some respects, but does not allow for the deeper thought that can go into one post.

And forget about trying to moderate a place like that. Absolute nightmare. I should know, I'm a Slack admin at my day job and am part of several Slack instances for products that I use—I have seen what gets posted, and how quickly things can flame out of control once critical mass is reached. Flame wars on forums are slow burns where moderation is easier because it was a core feature of the product, not an afterthought. Now let's look at the status quo.

On the opposite end of the spectrum of closed systems like Slack and Discord is the free and open web—the one I grew up with, and the one I recommend VO-BB stick with. It's free, open-source, and WE (the community) own it, as long as server bills are paid by someone to keep the lights on. Perhaps VO-BB can run on donations. I'd love to donate to keep this community alive. The web is dying, folks. It used to be my favorite place on the whole internet, and I miss it. I also predict it will make a roaring comeback as we discover social media and Silicon Valley's true goal: profit above service. They are businesses with business models, after all.

A modern VO-BB's forum/bulletin board is built for QUALITY and SERVICE to its users—namely, us. In contrast, modern tools like Discord and Slack are designed with business models in mind, designed to serve shareholders. With that need for lock-in, good luck getting your information out when you decide to leave for someone else's platform; better luck trying to import your data into the next place.


Further serving us, the VO-BB is unlike today's platforms, which all encourage people to react to posts and share it and all that garbage. For those unaware, even Slack has the ability to "react" to a post like a facebook Like, but using emojis. They are designed for... REACTION. Stickiness. To keep you coming back.

On the other hand, Forums like these were meant for deep (and shallow) discussions—not gaining followers, sounding smart so you can market yourself, etc. Ever notice how the posts on here feel more organic and human than those on LinkedIn? We're not following formulas to get followers here; we're humans having fun, making connections, joking, learning, growing, sharing the good and the bad. A real slice of humanity, if you put a little finger grease into it.

Instead, with a place like this, it's just you, me, the flowers, the trees... (Star Wars music begins to play) planting the seeds, letting the grass grow, and watching the flowers bloom into a beautiful garden of information, assistance, fun, and friends.

Sorry so short. Longer letter later.
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Mike Paul
speakingofmike.com

[Bob Bergen]

All interesting stuff. I myself would never use Slack or Discord. But, it's not about me. If this is what the masses prefer, go for it. I'm extremely active on vo group pages, and am able to reach out to so many. Now, the downside of these platforms is everyone gets homogenized. Advice is asked often by people who don't clarify enough, such as they might leave out they are in the UK. Ya ain't gonna get great advice on the UK vo industry from someone is Dayton, Ohio. But I'm also able to answer with a question. "Can you give me more color here? Where are you? What are your goals in vo?" Etc. I can and am happy to delve and ask for clarification.

I've been asked to be a part of Discord for years. Just not interested. I also never did TikTok. Just not interested. I don't use social media socially. Just not interested. I visit here still because I'm interested. Granted, not much happening here. But over the past few weeks I've participated in some pretty cool conversations which have lead to some pretty cool wins for a few actors.

I will never pay to be a part of any social media group or platform. Not only not interested, it's not necessary. Too much is free. Bottom line, I don't care to learn anything new on social media. Now, you might open this up to a younger generation, which is great. But I think it's going to be hard to wean them away from their Insta/Tik world.

[Deirdre]

For what it's worth, Slack is 85% of the reason I'm leaving my game-dev job after 3 and a half years.
(It's a non -starter for this community, but I wanted to let you know I had looked into it.)

I find Discord is serviceable for game industry meetups and stuff.

Bob may be right about attracting newer/younger actors.
But is that our mission now? It probably once was.

It's OK with me if the new VO-BB is a tiny, curated island with a tiny population in the middle of the internet sea. I think we like it that way. It's a special place and I think we'll still invite special people to join us here.

And I'm happy to build our new home.

Your resident tyrant
Deebs
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DBCooperVO.com
IMDB

[Mike Paul]

I think the more we re-engage with vo-bb and bring interesting discussions, the more people will come back and add value back into the system. When people don't water the plant, it dies.
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Mike Paul
speakingofmike.com

[Mandy Nelson]

I don't care if we stay here or move there or get huge or stay tiny. I just care that we still ARE.
I adore a good Discord time and it is easy to use. I'm happy to help play around with the various recommendations, Deirdre, as you need playing around.
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006 member of the Sisterhood of the Traveling Mic. Bonded by sound.

Manfillappsoc: The Mandy and Philip mutual appreciation Society. Who's in your network?

Have you seen my mic closet? ~ me to my future husband

[todd ellis]

I am not part of social media. I dabble in LinkedIn and ... here. That's it.

[Lee Gordon]

I like this place just as it is, although I'd be happy if there were a couple of enhancements. It would be nice to have a "Thumbs Up" emoticon or some similar device so I could quickly give a "Like" to Mike for his above comments, as well as to the other excellent responses.

I also wouldn't mind being able to post images, and maybe also videos, directly here without having to used a photo sharing site like Photobucket (which switched from free to paid and now sends almost daily messages threatening to delete my photos, as if that's the only place they exist) or Imgur, which I switched to to replace Photobucket, and I expect to inevitably also switch to a paid-only model some time in the future and start hounding me the same way.

But if neither of those things is possible, I still prefer this forum, even if we must -- gasp -- change to a different typeface, although I'll say it: I'm fine with Comic Sans.
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Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice

[Matto]

I really enjoy this place, and the contrast it provides to A LOT of the internet.
I wish it occurred to me more frequently to visit, and that I had more of a willingness to jump in on discussions.

My approach to the internet these days is a bit of a "get in and get out as soon as possible" for work. i.e. once I'm done with VO for that particular day or portion of the day, I jump off the computer.

I find most social media unpalatable and have been "softly" absent for a number of years (have an account, don't use it) and recently abandoned ship completely from all Meta products (FB, Insta, Whatsapp). I'm pretty sure the only one I have is LinkedIn.

I'll do my best to support anything that is the antithesis to the common internet. My preference would be for something in its own silo, but I don't feel like I deserve to make any demands

I've steered away from a lot of if-you're-not-paying-for-the-product-you-are-the-product social media/communication platforms and would love to continue. Meaning that if the value is there I'm happy to pay a fee to cover costs.
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www.mattcowlrick.com

[Philip Banks]

Every workday evening I turn the sign on the shop door from OPEN to CLOSED and take a walk to the harbour; it's about a 2 minute walk from my house.

Neil is a gas engineer.
Andy works at the local Crematorium.
Robert is a Chef.
I'm just me.

Conversation flows. Neil has a pocket full of Dog treats to satisfy Luna, Juna, Jasper, Cupcake, Claude and any other dogs that care to stop by; they all know "The Candyman".

We all talk nonsense for a while and then go our separate ways.

Yesterday afternoon my time I receive a text message from a voice over friend in the USA. We talk regularly "face to face" on Skype.

"What do we do now?" he asked. It took a couple of minutes to solve the problem. Reason for the call? Tech problem with a genre of voice work he'd never done before. I had nothing to bring to the party BUT I knew a ...

They then got together face to face and the magic happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du_iG7Veupc

[Jack Daniel]

Mike is right.

Aside from his core insight about not relying on platforms that can pull the rug at any time, and who can change cost structures and ad support schemes every time some MBA points out that the company is becoming too respondent to customers:

I've used Slack and it was mildly effective at housing short-lived discussions and files, but it's clumsy and tends to be used by a few superusers who bother to learn its ways and left alone by most. A bit all over the place and not about community as conversations quickly get lost and the "chat" focus encourages replies containing little information (eg, "Yep!" and "I can't find that file Janey uploaded last week, can someone upload it again?").

Discourse I've used only in passing but that was because it is hideous and, again, quite clumsy. Primarily used by gamers and apparently designed by someone who despises elegance.

If there is good content, young (and old) people will come. Good content meaning thoughtful responses by people who actually know things. There are many exemplars here, but Bob Bergen definitely comes to mind.

When I joined this site in 2016 or so, I was at the beginning of my VO career and I learned a hell of a lot because the info was dense and NOT performative (as it is with pretty much all the socials, as others have pointed out). I keep coming back because I hope that Bob will provide a breathtakingly honest answer or Philip will make me laugh or I'll have a chance to actually provide some useful info to someone who wants it. I def tried to come off as more knowledgable than I was at the beginning, because I wanted to fit in and be cool, but I've learned to keep most of my worst impulses in check and only speak when I think it helpful or at least clever.

Other than IRL conversations, there is almost nowhere to have solid technical or business conversations, and I would love it if this venue took its place again.
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Jack Daniel
Narrator / Man About Town

[todd ellis]

I think what we're saying is:

This place is the Peloton we got for Christmas 2019 and is now sitting in the corner of the bedroom covered in dirty laundry.

We just need to start using it again.
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"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?

[Mandy Nelson]

[Deirdre]

The reason this place never got its much-needed technical update is because the database of postings here will not translate to the phpBB3 architecture.

We should move forward with a safer, more agile framework, but we will have to mothball this place. We can leave it "present but not voting". It will act like a library.

I believe the past attempts to move the VO-BB to a new home were met with failure simply because users liked this place and the continuity of activity from its inception. But now, we don't necessarily need to rely on our legacy posts about ISDN and such.

Now that I will have a modicum of energy to oversee a new neighborhood we can move ahead. Truly, tho' -- this joint must be closed to new input when we go.
_________________
DBCooperVO.com
IMDB

[Mike Paul]

Yeah, I like the idea of archiving this one as read-only and making the new one a fresh start. Lots of timeless info here.
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Mike Paul
speakingofmike.com