VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

PJHawke · Guest

From the research I've done (read a few pro's books, lotta websearching), I always figured that VOs went indy until they'd racked up some good experience and demo material, and then went union. Then I discovered this board, chock fulla pros, and it seems an awful lot of seasoned pros are remaining independent. I'd thought that pay thingies like residuals were only really collected by union talent, since clients are not restricted to union terms of payment. As an indy, do you pretty much only get resids if you're a seasoned "name" with clout in the industry?

Dan-O · The Gates of Troy Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 1638

Residuals are negotiable. Most of mine are what's called a "buyout." Meaning the client has the right to use my performance for a set period of time (e.g. 6mos, 1yr, 2yrs) and then pays up again after that. A lot of commercials date themselves for a specific sale price, so there is no need to do so. But, and this is a big but(t), whenever you know a client will use the spot for an extended length of time talk to them about it and most will agree to a reasonable term.

Mike · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject:

Deirdre · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject:

Yep. "Buyout" means They have it for ever and ever , amen.

Otherwise, it's option to renew, i.e. residuals.
With union gigs, residuals are figured chiefly in 13-week blocks.
With indie contracts it can be quarters, half years, years, whatever.

There are union-sanctioned buyouts, too, but it's something like price X3.
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Dan-O · The Gates of Troy Joined: 17 Jan 2005 Posts: 1638

Guest · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:57 am Post subject:

Certainly in the UK, it's not unusual to be offered a "buyout" for a fixed period ie. (13 weeks, 6 months, a year) and if what you've voiced is used beyond the agreed period then you have a right to negotiate an additional fee. Perhaps just a point of terminology - people using "buyout" when they actually mean "option to renew". I'm often told "buyout for 12 months [OR] 6 months" etc when approached by both UK & US clients.

Simon Fellows · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:58 am Post subject:

Sorry, that was me - not logged on
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Deirdre · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:28 am Post subject:

It's a BUY-out not a LEASE-out.
When you buy something it's yours.

The term is being used in place of "flat fee for use with an option to renew".
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Frank F · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:24 pm Post subject:

Don't forget the third and all important denominator - time.

Quoting: The term is being used in place of "flat fee for use with an option to renew (after a period of <time>) ".

Buy-outs do not disreagrad the "time" factor. i.e.: Buy-out may be defined as "unlimited use, unlimited markets (or market specific), for a period of <time>... (here is the part many forget to add into negotiations reagrding buyouts)...after which or upon use in additional markets or areas not included in this Agreement, the Parties will agree upon an additional fee as required for the circumstances."

Residuals are specifically "time" related... i.e.: ...the term of this agreement is for thirteen weeks of "broadcast" in <market or markets - specific>, upon completion of this period of time a fee of $XXXXXX will apply to each market for <time> (another thirteen weeks????).

Make sure YOUR Agreements are written specifically to what your plan of operation or personal goals are. Have an attorney review or advise you on your Personal Services Agreement - it WILL save you time an d frustration.

Have fun gang... keep them residuals coming....!!!!!!

Frank F

Deirdre · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject:

I had always understood "buy-out" to implicitly include "forever".

My mistake.
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Frank F · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:41 pm Post subject:

Almost all my AFTRA contracts are "time"specific, as written by AFTRA. My own Personal Services Agreement (PSA) is also time specific.

Aren't semantics fun?! Confused

Additional information regarding "buy-out's" is: many are written for broadcast - and have a limitation of one year - unlimited use, in specific markets; therefore providing additional income for Talent when the product is used in a different or unique venue or market.

Talent is also given the luxury of allowing only use of product "en-mass" or complete, meaning that the entire product must be used during the term; and if parts are disseminated from the original product, fees must be paid. Further explanation of this relates to taking "wild lines" from a previously produced product and creating a new production from the parts... Talent should be paid - again - for the new product of the sum of parts.

Frank F

PJHawke · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:04 pm Post subject: Wow....

This is complex! Maybe the terminology is sort of regional, or has changed over time...

Terri Apple's book describes (under standard union contract) "residuals" are a payment received every week or so during the cycle (which is most commonly 13 weeks) based on usage (how often it's run, where it's running); sort of like a tiny royalty each time it's aired. So, if its a local spot running on two stations, you get fairly small residuals, and if it's a big national one in several cities and stations that means a whole lotta spots and thus bigger residuals. And if the cycle is renewed, you get the basic session rate again. Granted, her book's about 5 years old, but I think Rod Saulsberry's book had the same description and his book is only a year or so old.

Apple called the unlimited-use-per-cycle a "Wild Spot", and it has it's own fee structure (higher than the Per-Spot-Per-Cycle rate since there are no residuals associated with it); renewal at end of cycle yields the session fee again. And "Buyout" means they bought it, the whole kit 'n kaboodle, fer ebber 'n ebber amen. So in HER jargon, what DB and Mike describe is a buyout, and what Simon, Frank & Dan describe is a wildspot. Fun with Jargon!

Makes me think of that old Python sketch: "Sorry old boy, havin' a bit of trouble understanding your banter..."

ConnieTerwilliger

Make sure there are is no question about what "buy-out" means to the person paying you - spell it out in your statement of work with the client.

For non-union work, you and the client can determine anything you want. Total inperpetuity, specified period of time, any medium, etc.

For union work (spots or shows or non-broadcast stuff) there are "rules" to follow and perhaps you can find someone in one of the AFTRA or SAG offices who actually understand them!

A producer friend was working with a signatory production house on a union non-broadcast project for her company. The initial contract was for a linear video presentation to be distibuted on videotape/DVD. After they finished the project, they decided to re-edit the material and use it on their website. Trying to determine the additional $$ that were due to the talent for this "reuse" was a real chore. There was no concensus.

Hugs,
Connie
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Bailey · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:09 am Post subject:

I guess I've been blessed in dealing with clients that have a complete understanding about the words Buy Out. They Buy my talent for that particular job... and then I'm Out the door. Fortunately, I have done business with the same clients over and over again. I always thought that the word Residual only applied to those in a Union status.
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