VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[vogirl]

Nice touch Banksey with the writing down of the amount. I SO wished I would have thought of that at the time.

This was not a gig from my agent so that's why no call was made, but I'll def. use that writing a number method Should this ever happen again.

Brilliant, thanks

[Jeff McNeal]

I'd just like to stress once more, for the record, the importance of clearly stipulating the terms of your service before you ever walk into a session or have the copy faxed over or whatever. It removes all the unpleasant variables that have to do with money. It makes it so much easier to get on with the task at hand, and everyone can concentrate on the real reason you have been hired.

The reason I bristle somewhat over Phillip's technique of confronting the producer at all, is two-fold:

A. It's partly your own fault for not clearly defining the terms in advance -- you can never assume anything;

and

B. Ths business is all about building relationships. People enjoy doing business with friends, and when you make someone uncomfortable or embarrassed or put on the spot, they're not going to feel as friendly as they might have otherwise. And far less likely to call on you again in the future. At least in major markets. If you're the only game in town, well, then I suppose that changes the equation somewhat -- not so much these days when anyone can hire anyone from anywhere and have their product delivered around the world in minutes.

I wish I would have seen this thread earlier, because my advice to VOGirl would have been to chalk this one up to experience, and simply make sure she's prepared for the next time, as the next time will invariably come. Sure, it feels good to "get things off your chest" in these situations, but in my view, the talent should never, EVER place themselves in an adversarial position to the producer. Especially in a market the size of L.A., where there will always be someone willing to do the same kind of work, cheaper and faster than you might be willing or able to.

[Philip Banks]

I tend to favour the "chalk it up to experience" if it's possible. One is usually able to tell during a session if there is potential for a good long term relationship. Forgetting everything else, if the job was worth while without adding to the bill then think of the write-off as marketing money, an investment. Without being present at the specific session it's impossible to comment.

I'm in the fortunate position of being the only voice over in Portgordon so am free to offend every producer, engineer, director and ad agency creative because they have to use me ... L.A? I think you'll find there's an H in Little'ampton. So, LH, if anything

[Andy]

Would you want to work for this chump again? Had a similar situation with a local agency. I was called down to their studio to do a couple of spots for a local restaurant. "Oh while you're here could you knock out a few of these one liners for another client I've got here?" I did. And as we were doing a tally for the PO's for my pay I got this: "Now, if the client goes with those liners I'll do a PO and you'll get paid for them." I'm thinkin' to mylself, "WTF!?" Didn't say squat, but thought on my drive home I got taken for schmuck.

Two weeks later I get an urgent email from the producer asking if I could help him out, like in the next two hours. I called and said, "Hey Anthony, if it's okay with you, I can knock 'em out in the next few minutes from my studio...saves the drive. But, I'm charging extra the rate because I didn't like that little scene two weeks ago where I ended up doing extra work without any promise for pay. Pardon, my South Philly, 'Antinee', but it kinda chaped my ass."

There was a pause and then, "Dude, I'll do a PO for those liners and get you paid ASAP. Now, can you help me out with these other two spots? I'm in a bind."

I said, "Dood, you'll have 'em in twenty minutes."

I knew that moment would come as I do work for them on a regular basis. The moment came and I let him know "...homey don't play dat."

[Philip Banks]

Oh, no,no,no!!! Appalling way to behave! Shame on you. You should've said nothing, offered a discount, did a two for five offer and called your agent in Littlehampton to complain.

Develope a backbone and you'll never work in this town again.

By the way, in confrontational situations it's easy to spot an extrovert producer. He looks at your shoes when he's talking to you.

[MichaelJ]

In a related note...

I've always been as completely descriptive as possible on every written estimate/invoice, as far as amount of copy, estimated/approximate recording time, rate per minute, etc., etc., etc. One of the things I always include is a provision for "additional and/or corrected copy" that may be added later (presumably AFTER the initial recording session). For this "additiona and/or corrected copy" I generously charge a reduced rate (about 40% less!), taking a lead from the AFTRA rate card (though I'm non-union).

So far, I haven't had a problem with this policy, but I recently had a revelation: Knowing this aspect of my pricing structure, wouldn't it be pretty easy for a producer to call me in for a five-minute read, then call me the next day to say there's been a script revision...of ten additional minutes' worth?

Is this just one of those possible-but-not-likely-to-happen risks of running an honorable business, or does this practice really open me up for the inevitable shafting so many of you have spoken of in the past?

As I mentioned, I haven't had a problem with this yet, and the people with whom I work on a regular basis seem to really appreciate the consideration.

Whudda younz tink?