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VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!
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louzucaro
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1915
Location: Chicago area
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 Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Ed Gambill wrote: | | Only one thought. We as a nation seem to be willing to throw up our hands and say “Oh we can’t turn things around”. |
In many ways this is true. Of course there are individuals and groups in the U.S. who try very hard and succeed on some level. As you said, the reasons behind why it's true are too long...and complicated.
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Lou Zucaro
http://www.voicehero.com
"Well, yeah, there's my favorite leaf!" |
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Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13026
Location: Camp Cooper
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: |
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What about those nifty sounds-like-a-Neumann mics made in China?
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DBCooperVO.com
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glittlefield
M&M
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 2039
Location: Round Rock, TX
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
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...or home-built DAWs?
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Greg Littlefield
VO-BB Member #59 |
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Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13026
Location: Camp Cooper
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Heh heh heh.
I remember when AFTRA told me I couldn't self-produce.
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DBCooperVO.com
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dhouston67
VO-BB Intarwebz Glossary Administrator
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: Right next door to Sandra Bullock. No, really.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| louzucaro wrote: |
And nobody's gonna pay $20 - $30 for a brand new, non-rare, 4" action figure. |
Actually it's 3 and 3/4 inches. Hi, my name is Dave, and I'm a recovering SW collector. 
Indeed, just as we've become used to paying no more than five to seven bucks for an action figure, it's hard to convince your average person making 20K/yr that there's anything wrong in buying a $39 DVD player.
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Great Voice. Great Choice. For Voice Talking and stuff.
http://davidhoustonvoice.com
Do That Voice! - The DHV Blog
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Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!
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robert jadah
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Before we all go skipping merrily off to get lost in the thickets of weak analogies, permit to please simply restate what I first thought to discuss:
The teasing and belittling of low-budget voicers and seekers is hypocritical when we happily seek discount workers in other free-lance crafts.
The cure for this specific hypocricy is simply. Either:
a) not tease dollar-a-holler people, or
b) not support talent erosion.
Personally, I choose Door Number Two.
In no way does this discussion involve lawn care, microphones, manufacturing, Dutch dikes, or action figures.
But I get the message: contrary opinion - considered though it may be - is not welcome here.
Meanwhile, I thank the three telephone callers, four e-mailers, and half the PM'ers, who dared agree with my viewpoint.
I really hadn't meant to start a brush fire.
We now return to regular programming. |
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dhouston67
VO-BB Intarwebz Glossary Administrator
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: Right next door to Sandra Bullock. No, really.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| robert jadah wrote: | | But I get the message: contrary opinion - considered though it may be - is not welcome here. |
Robert,
If that were the case, the thread would have been nuked hours ago. Methinks you may be taking all this personally, when in fact I don't think there have been any real ad hominem attacks here. Let's keep some perspective.
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Great Voice. Great Choice. For Voice Talking and stuff.
http://davidhoustonvoice.com
Do That Voice! - The DHV Blog
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paddyo
CM
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 975
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| JeffreyKafer wrote: | | I typically mow my own lawn. Should I be hiring a lawn care professional? |
Only if you suck at mowing your own lawn.
Paddyo |
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Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| robert jadah wrote: | | The teasing and belittling of low-budget voicers and seekers is hypocritical when we happily seek discount workers in other free-lance crafts. |
You're really talking about 2 different things here. I don't ridicule the lowballer who will do the job for cheap, anymore than I ridicule McDonalds for offering food cheaper than the local steakhouse. You get what you pay for and those lowballers don't value their talent enough to have higher rates. And if the talent sees less value in their own work, then so will the client. There's a market for subpar, cheap voicers. Power to 'em.
I belittle voice seekers who want it cheap, fast AND good, but aren't willing to pay for such results. I want a logo designer who will give fairly good results at a fairly good price. I fully expect the outcome to be commensurate with the amount of money I'm willing to pay. As an example, there was Craiglist post for someone looking for an audiobook narrator. They wanted 3 different accents and expected to wrap it in 8 recording sessions. Payment? $100 total. $150 if you're GOOD! That's what we belittle. The expectation of excellence for bargain basement prices.
I'm not walking into McDonalds and expecting to order filet mignon off the dollar menu.
| robert jadah wrote: | | But I get the message: contrary opinion - considered though it may be - is not welcome here. |
<yawn> oh please, don't even go there.
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Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com |
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louzucaro
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1915
Location: Chicago area
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| dhouston67 wrote: | | Actually it's 3 and 3/4 inches. Hi, my name is Dave, and I'm a recovering SW collector. |
Yeah, ahem, me too, which is why I made sure to include "new, non-rare" in my descriptor 
| robert jadah wrote: | | In no way does this discussion involve lawn care, microphones, manufacturing, Dutch dikes, or action figures. |
Sure it does, because your original post didn't include your 'cures', it asked a question...and this all ties in with things much bigger than dollar-a-holler people vs. talented people (which, I still maintain, aren't mutually exclusive).
Re: your cure, are you saying that if you were out to hire a web designer and you found two, each with a unique style that you liked on its own merit, and one was 10x the price of the other one, that you'd hire the more expensive one just because you don't think it's right for the other person to charge that much less?
If so, ok, great, you get kudos for sticking to your guns re: the whole subject. Not everybody can afford to do that, especially if that price differential is $2k vs. $20k.
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Lou Zucaro
http://www.voicehero.com
"Well, yeah, there's my favorite leaf!" |
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CarynClark
MMD
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 2697
Location: Fort Myers, FL
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW, I see Robert's point. And, I don't think he meant anything personal by it. We (collectively... not anyone here necessarily) do tend to be disappointed in voice talent who work for less than what we think rates should be, but then again, we search for bargains ourselves. True, isn't it?
I believe the design one gets for $100 is going to be far different than one for which you pay $500. If you're willing to settle for the $100 design b/c of your budget, etc, then fine... but you likely will be settling, b/c for the $500, I'm sure you would get a) better service b) more selection of design concepts, and c) the end result would likely be much more professional and interesting looking. Now, please note, I'm not speaking in absolutes... I'm sure there are deals out there.
I think in most cases, you get what you pay for, for sure (or another fave of mine... you pay peanuts, you get monkeys).
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Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!
"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave |
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Yoda117
M&M
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2362
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| CarynClark wrote: | | FWIW, I see Robert's point. And, I don't think he meant anything personal by it. We (collectively... not anyone here necessarily) do tend to be disappointed in voice talent who work for less than what we think rates should be, but then again, we search for bargains ourselves. True, isn't it? |
Guilty as charged your honor.
| Quote: | | I think in most cases, you get what you pay for, for sure (or another fave of mine... you pay peanuts, you get monkeys). |
Again agreed. I think that you have to be really, really careful and on the ball to get the best deal. Sometimes that means paying the $, but occasionally you get lucky and find a good deal.
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Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor
Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones |
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robert jadah
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| louzucaro wrote: | Re: your cure, are you saying that if you were out to hire a web designer and you found two, each with a unique style that you liked on its own merit, and one was 10x the price of the other one, that you'd hire the more expensive one just because you don't think it's right for the other person to charge that much less?
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Actually, no. When I opted for a more professional approach to my three (small) sites, I went first to VO people who also did web design.
I received three quotes, ranging from $750 to $1,000. One featured work I wasn't crazy about; another was having computer problems, and the third wasn't going to be able to do it for four or five weeks.
I then went to guru, and stopped the bidding at ten applicants, whose quotes ranged from $75 to $2,000.
I selected a $175 bidder for a variety of reasons, including his artistic sense, literate e-mails, sense of humour, and probable need.
At the conclusion of our long and happy working relationship, I paid him precisely four times his quote.
(For anyone wanting to challenge me on this, I'll PM his address and phone number for verification.)
And as for me taking any of this lively little discussion personally: hell, I don't even take my marriages too personally.
Now back to regular programming? |
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Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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But there's also perception of talent and how that weighs in on rates,
I know I can't draw. Therefore, I'm willing to pay someone to draw me a logo. And I don't think they should charge based on how bad I am at drawing. That would be ludicrous, right?
But with voice-over, people think the just because you have a voice, you can be a voice talent. So Billy down the hall in accounting could do the voicing for half the price. So they think I should base my rates on how well they could do it themselves. nutty, isn't it?
But in no way am I disparaging Billy for undercutting me. If he can do it for half the price at the quality level they want, then power to him. That's capitalism, folks.
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Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com |
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