VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Does this affect the end product?

I'm running the Neumann TLM 103 and Sennheiser 416 mics into a Focusrite Voicemaster Platinum Pro, and the Focusrite is plugged into the Mackie Spike(which used to be my all-in-one pre, processor,interface, etc.) which connects by USB to my computer

The Gain input on the Mackie is of course, turned all the way down.

It works fine but I'm just wondering if even with the gain down on the Mackie, it still might be impacting the end product.(I've been told that Mackie Spikes are "sound sponges") If so, I will be looking for a possibly better option.

Thanks!

TheVoiceOfBob · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject:

I'm not as familiar with the Spike as with other interfaces. Check to see if one of the inputs bypasses the built in preamps. That should be the one you use to eliminate the electronics that could contribute noise. For instance the PreSonus Firebox bypasses the internal preamp when using inputs 3 and 4, so I use 3 as the input from my preamp.
_________________
Try to imagine a world where there is no such thing as hypothetical situations.

The Voice of Bob

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

I've perused the Mackie Spike owner's manual, and don't get any indication that either Gain 1 or Gain 2 bypass the built-in processing. The SPDIF and Midi inputs I think may be able to bypass, but they don't accomodate microphones.
I thought that with the Gain inputs down you would bypass the internal processing, but am beginning to wonder.

I can say that I tried some test audio:

#1 Neumann TLM 103 into Focusrite Voicemaster Platinum into Mackie Spike
....http://voice123.com/mp3/demos/Rob%20Ellis%20-%20RobEllis%20Focusrite%20Mackie%20Spik.mp3

#2Neumann TLM 103 into Mackie Spike
http://voice123.com/mp3/demos/Rob%20Ellis%20-%20Rob%20Ellis%20Mackie%20Spike.mp3

I can hear a little difference but am still not sure that it truly answers my burning question...

If indeed there is no way to completely bypass the processing in the Mackie Spike, would you simply replace the Spike with some kind of mixer? Most mixers I have glanced at also have mic pre-amps as well.

There's also the question of whether my soundcard would need to be addressed. The Spike comes with software that I believe functions as a soundcard or is a soundcard

Yoda117 · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject:

A quick check to the flow diagram (I hate Mackie documentation, they never label things) looks like it might bypass the preamp. If so, then you should be good, as Bob stated.

But folks on other boards who've tried it have had some issues.

Let me ask you this, how are your connecting to the Spike and are you using the DI for the device, or just running it straight through the preamp?

Yeah, mackie products can have some issues, but keeping my 1220 at unity level, I've not had an issue with it sucking the gain out of a recording. That said, it has sucked some of the characteristic of the recording itself out of things when I've used it as a DI and bypassed the preamp (and when I haven't as well).

Apparently it does not like "colored" mics.
_________________
Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor

Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

I connect the Neumann into the Focusrite, and the Focusrite into the "Input 2" XLR jack in the back of the Spike.

Basically using the Spike as my mixer. It started out as my everything, but then I upgraded to the Focusrite, and will soon, probably upgrade to the Avalon 737, which I'm told matches well with TLM 103s and Sennheiser 416s.
This is why the question has become more "burning". With an Avalon I want to make sure that nothing is compromising the performance.

Yoda117 · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject:

Page 68 of your manual. The TRS input is bypassing something.

Again, Mackie's lack of detail leaves much to be desired (but telling me what flavors the device is available in is quite interesting... jalapeno sounds quite tangy Wink

).

It seems that if you use TRS inputs, you're talking an alternate path compared to the XLR inputs (despite the fact that the jack can accept either).

Unfortunately there's a box or two which mackie did not label, which makes it a bit of a guessing game... Rolls Eyes

From what I've googled and what I'm reading in the manual, it seems that while a TRS connection bypasses something compared to the XLR (when you press the "Instrument" option on the front panel), it's still part of that preamp. Basically, if they're not going to tell you that it can do it, I always assume that it can't, especially with an option like that.

However, their own flow diagrams possibly state differently.

That said, let me ask you this... if you're spending close to $1800 for a preamp in the not too distant future, why would you want to use a bottom rack device as an AD/DA for it?

I wouldn't use my FA-101 as the interface, and I consider that to be a much nicer unit than the Mackie Spike.

Just saying is all...

EDIT: your clips do sound different, and I prefer the second of the two. Let me ask you something, what level were you recording at for both, and was your position relative to the mic the same. The first one sounds like you were coming in a bit too hot for my tastes with your voice and that mic.

Again... just an opinion.
_________________
Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor

Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Yoda117 · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject:

you could use a dedicated AD/DA or you could find a nice interface board.

Some folks here like the MOTU units, some like the M-Audio cards.

A lot used the bypass on the Digi 002/003 and got a low-end AD/DA which served their needs AND ProTools, all in one bundle.

I know of at least one person here who uses an Apogee Rosetta 200 with FireWire interface. A bit pricey, but effective.

I took the totally insane route, but I'm kinda known for doing that. Laugh

Here's the big thing. What sounds good to YOU. If you're cool with what you've got, then don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The biggest part to this game is to be generally happy with what you've got. If you aren't, then no matter what you do, it'll usually reflect in the read somewhat.

I'm all for improving my chain whenever I can, but I'm always happy as a clam with the stuff I've got. If I wasn't I wouldn't be using it.
_________________
Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor

Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones

billelder · Guest

Tapco mixers were designed by Greg Mackie. It's been described and the "poor man's Mackie." <g> I don't own one and don't know anyone who does, but I wonder if these have promise? Here's the Tapco USB Interface, the Tapco Firewire Interface and the company web site.

Anyone ever use one...or have one. Maybe they're an urban legend?

Yoda117 · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject:

I've used on and frankly, wasn't impressed.

For the $, I'd rather have put it towards a Yamaha similarly priced product.

If you're going to go the mixer route and use that for your AD/DA solution, I'd go with an Allen & Heath at the current time. I've got an Onyx 1220 on my own side chain, and with the stuff I've done to it, it's pretty nice, but most people wouldn't have spent the time on it that I have, and for my setup, I can handle pretty much everything without needing to use it anymore.

It'll still sit on my desk, but it won't be used nearly as much anymore I'm afraid.
_________________
Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor

Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones

Gregory Best · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject:

I've been using a Spike for some time without any pf the problems you are describing. I have the agin down all the way on Gain 1. I don't notice any coloration from the Spike with the gain all the way down.

I have a Behringer XENYX 1204FX mixer with nice warm pres (for the $$$.) I run my mics through the XENXYX into the Spike.

The XENYX also has USB output but I've had probelms trying to motor back from the computer. particularlyu trying to use Skype. I'll figure it out when I have more time.
_________________
Gregory Best

greg@gregorybest.com

Yoda117 · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject:

Greg, which model of that mixer are you using.

The few I peeked at didn't have a USB-input. You'd have to use a TRS or XLR cable to send audio back through.
_________________
Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor

Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Gregory Best · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:52 am Post subject:

Using the 1204 FX http://www.behringer.com/1204FX/index.cfm?lang=ENG which has USB capabilities and "boutique" mic pres. Lower models don't have the USB funtionality.

Some here don't like Behringer, I have several pieces of Behringer equipment and find it quite good for the money. I got the mixer for about $150 from an eBay store.

I hear the Avalon is quite sweet. I'd love to try one too. I am going to work more on my performance and marketing and less on gear. I am working on my room next and something to quiete the computer more. I am considering building a voice booth like Donvan's or Bobbin's.

(Edited for typos, its early.)
_________________
Gregory Best

greg@gregorybest.com

Yoda117 · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:15 am Post subject:

Yeah, Behringer does not enter the doors of my place.

They make good knock-offs, don't get me wrong. I just have a problem with their power supplies, which can be somewhat unsafe (which also earned the company a pretty high fine about 18 months back).
_________________
Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor

Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones