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VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!
Established November 10, 2004
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Chrissy
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 Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce, Thanks for the reminders. I've just set up my mini home studio and I'm learning Sound Forge thanks to the "home schooling" via long distance from Bob Souer!!! I figured I better give him a break and let him go on vacation to Ireland and Scotland after all the hours he spent on the phone with me. Thanks Bob, your great!!!
Chrissy |
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Yoda117
M&M
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2362
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Tips on submitting a successful audition |
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| JeffreyKafer wrote: | | asnively wrote: | | Did you know that awhile back V123 sent an email out to all their members asking them to normalize to -2? |
You shouldn't normalize at all. Record at the correct volume from the start. |
I can't believe they actually said that... since they're trying to promote themselves as THE place for VO on the Web, you'd think that they knew what they were doing.
Actually, having listened to some of their staff's VO, I'm going to take that last statement back... too easy.
Seriously though Jeff is right. Just track low and increase the output during the mixing / addition of processing. Always works like a charm.
If you want to have some real fun, check out whether or not your preamp has the ability to increase/trim the output separately from the input gain . When used as a trim, you can lower your VO track for the next stage, but add a bit of coloration by saturating the transformer. Nifty way to make a GR sound more like a tube mic.
Sorry... got carried away for a moment there, hehehehe.
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Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor
Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones |
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Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: Re: Tips on submitting a successful audition |
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| Yoda117 wrote: | | If you want to have some real fun, check out whether or not your preamp has the ability to increase/trim the output separately from the input gain . |
Mine does. The ART Tube USB pre. I have a gain and an output level. I've never really understood the difference. The gain is supposed to work the tube harder, but I've not been able to tell the difference. Should I max the gain to drive the tube and then adjust the output levels with the output knob?
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Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com |
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voicy1stef
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Lovely Hertfordshire, England
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for this great posting. I've come to realise that the v.com, etc. auditions are like buses, they keep coming. So, if one isn't right for me, or if I don't feel that I'm getting it after several tries at an audition...I just let it go.
And, thanks for your comments on watermarking. I've revised my style of watermarking thanks to some helpful comments I received from a member of another forum. and some that I read here.
Cheers!
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Intuit and do it!
British-American voice artist based in England for the past umpteen years. I say, has it really been that long!
http://www.stefsvoice4u.co.uk
Podcast: Positive Affirmations and Audio Stories, on iTunes, Spotify etc. |
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TheVoiceOfBob
14th Avenue
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 1411
Location: Pittsburgher in the Carolinas
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| louzucaro wrote: | | makes everything sound a bit icky. |
Lou,
If you are going to use such technical terms, I recommend you post in the "Gear" section. 
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Yoda117
M&M
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2362
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Tips on submitting a successful audition |
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| JeffreyKafer wrote: |
Mine does. The ART Tube USB pre. I have a gain and an output level. I've never really understood the difference. The gain is supposed to work the tube harder, but I've not been able to tell the difference. Should I max the gain to drive the tube and then adjust the output levels with the output knob? |
Yeah the more the drive the input, the harder the tube is supposed to be driven harder. When you crank back on the output, it ought to drive the transformer harder. Together it ought to be an interesting effect (with a LaChappell preamp, the results were pretty wild... not a lot of use for voiceover, but on guitar it was really cool). I wouldn't max out your gain, but boost it past your normal tracking level and then dial it back in using the output trim.
I'm not as familiar with the ART Tube (owned one for all of 2 hours... didn't like it on the mic I got it for) but it should work to some extent.
I've got about $1200 of Redco cabling to arrive this week to finish setting up the new room. I'll toss something for you using the LMNOPres to show you what I mean (they do this trick pretty wickedly).
Depending on the pots and the input stage you can also add an LF harmonic to the mix, which it similar to, but a bit more musical than using proximity effect with a mic, but works totally different than EQ or other types of dynamic processing. It's totally freaky, and I love playing with it on occasion.
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Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor
Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones
Last edited by Yoda117 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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louzucaro
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1915
Location: Chicago area
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Bob...you're right, sorry about that. I should have used "icky-ish" instead.
Stef...nice new Avatar pic!
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Lou Zucaro
http://www.voicehero.com
"Well, yeah, there's my favorite leaf!" |
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jasbart
Been Here Awhile
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 293
Location: Gilbertsville, KY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: Levels and normalization |
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| Yoda117 wrote: |
Thank you. I've been saying the same thing as of late. Between that and all the folks who want to track their levels at -2dB. The standard is -12 - 14dB for a reason (and some of us track softer than that). If you can't tell... invest in a pair of outboard VU meters. It's worth the $.
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Yoda:
I read this quote last week and I'm still not sure I understood you correctly. You are referring only to tracking levels at -12, right? Not sending out the finished product. I'm working on a project this week with audio from 6 different voice talents. Four of them provided files at around -2, two provided audio at -6 or more. I haven't figured out why anyone would send out audio at such a low level.
That said, I do have two clients who require audio at -6.5. One's a TV station, the other is an in-house production department for a company. I assume they want -6.5 because that's the way their equipment is set up.
Finally, why is everyone so opposed to normalization? It doesn't affect the quality of the audio.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts,
Jim
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Jim Barton
Barton Voice & Sound
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jasbart
Been Here Awhile
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 293
Location: Gilbertsville, KY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Tips on submitting a successful audition |
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| JeffreyKafer wrote: |
You shouldn't normalize at all. Record at the correct volume from the start. |
I think that normalization is being given a bad rap. Far be it from me to defend V123, but all they're asking is that they receive audio at -2, which is a good idea. Either normalize it that way, or mix it so your output achieves the desired level. Or like I always do with Pro Tools, put it through a finalizer with the output set at -1.5 or -1. Not smashed like a brick wall, just so the level hits the finalizer every now and again.
Jim
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Jim Barton
Barton Voice & Sound
www.bartonvoice.com |
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CarynClark
MMD
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 2697
Location: Fort Myers, FL
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Good tips Bruce. While I didn't audition for this gig, they are good tips nonetheless. I hope and pray I don't make any of these mistakes.
As for normalizing, I think v123 actually suggests -3. And, since I'm just now really starting to try to understand how my equipment works, I do normalize my v123 auds to -2 or -3, especially those where I'm using a softer voice. Is this wrong? I see there's a difference of opinion here on normalizing... I'm interested to see how this plays out. I'm learning!!
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Yoda117
M&M
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2362
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Levels and normalization |
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| jasbart wrote: |
Yoda:
I read this quote last week and I'm still not sure I understood you correctly. You are referring only to tracking levels at -12, right? Not sending out the finished product. I'm working on a project this week with audio from 6 different voice talents. Four of them provided files at around -2, two provided audio at -6 or more. I haven't figured out why anyone would send out audio at such a low level.
That said, I do have two clients who require audio at -6.5. One's a TV station, the other is an in-house production department for a company. I assume they want -6.5 because that's the way their equipment is set up.
Jim |
Oh dear Lord no...
I want people to actually be able to hear what I'm saying. Only tracking levels (and usually, only the initial input levels, as I often run things through an EQ in bypass... one in particular has a pleasant effect on my voice when I use it so I bypass the EQ, but still run it through the transformer and increase the output level to suit customer specs).
The end result is at whatever spec the customer requires (I do ask), with a default of -2/3, sometimes a smidge hotter.
There are two things that I've noticed in the home VO crowd, those that track at -1.5 to -2, and those that track much lower and then normalize without having taken any EQ or dealt with background issues. Neither usually makes for a good end track.
But everyone's got a different method. I'm not saying mine is best, just what's been working for me.
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Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor
Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones
Last edited by Yoda117 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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todd ellis
A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 10537
Location: little egypt
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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whew! thanks for clearing THAT up.
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Yoda117
M&M
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2362
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Yeah I had a PM or two relating to this topic over the weekend... nobody's written back so I'm assuming they understood what I was saying.
Having your initial input lower is a personal choice, but I find it easier to fix any issues when I track that way and then to increase output as I EQ or compress (or later down the road) to normal specs.
Great way to deal with certain room issues and stuff at the lower end of the harmonic spectrum IME.
For my condensors, it works nicely. For tube-based condensors, I usually need to go a bit hotter before I'm happy. For Ribbon mics... I need to be psychic.
Normalizing though... no thank you.
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Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor
Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones
Last edited by Yoda117 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BenWils
The Thirteenth Floor
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1324
Location: In a Flyover State
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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I would think normalizing a track recorded at a low level in a noisy room will just increase the noise level (fans/ambience) along with the voice level. Not good.
I record at slightly lower levels and boost to required levels needed with compression (Waves) and a final limiter plug (Massey Plugin). I have been experimenting with recording lower and also at higher levels and the effects of the compression and final limiting to see what sound I like better. So far, recording at lower levels and boosting on final mix seems cleaner since I record in 24 bit/48khz and have a pretty quiet vocal booth.
Recording hotter in the pre (without peaking it) does add a difference in the sound because it is working the pre more. I get smoother sound while not driving the pre as hard....and then boost as stated above. YMMV.
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Ben
"To be really good at voiceover, you need to improve your footwork and hip snap." |
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jasbart
Been Here Awhile
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 293
Location: Gilbertsville, KY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| BenWils wrote: | | I would think normalizing a track recorded at a low level in a noisy room will just increase the noise level (fans/ambience) along with the voice level. Not good. |
Not to beat the proverbial dead horse (too late) but I think we can take as a given that normalizing audio that was recorded in a noisy room will also boost the accompanying noise levels.
So let's assume that our audio was recorded in a quiet room, with a quiet mic and a quiet preamp, on a quiet computer.
Tuesday Yoda said | Yoda117 wrote: | | Normalizing though... no thank you. |
Question: other than personal preference, is there something inherently wrong with using a normalizing plug-in? In other words, does it degrade the file in some way? I honestly thought that, in Pro Tools for example, all the normalizing process did was increase the level of the highest peak of a particular file to the desired level, say 90%. Does that actually change the file? I know music engineers who do this as part of their standard operating procedure, ie record at a "safe" level, then normalize to a more workable level.
Thanks for continuing this discussion!
Jim
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Jim Barton
Barton Voice & Sound
www.bartonvoice.com |
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