VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Lizden]

Interesting article...what's a shame are some of the comments by people who say "He gets paid just to talk & is still complaining?"

GTA4 Actor Decries Voiceover Equity

Liz
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Liz de Nesnera O.A.V. ~ Livin' The VO Dream!
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[Yoda117]

I read this on Jeff's blog...

this is what I love about so much of the gaming communities, and it's reflected in the comments seen in the Wired post - they'll be the first to tell you that you're asking far too much (they'd have said the same if he had been paid half that, or even a third), but also the first to deride the game if the creators had used talent that didn't deliver.

the ignorance of the masses never fail to surprise me.
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[Deirdre]

Wanted to comment, but lost the will to live after 8 inches of the same old tired arguments.
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[Lizden]

OOPS, Sorry Jeff!
I should have known one of you guys would have already seen this! :-

[mcm]

DB - no excuse - you owe it to the world to comment. Srsly.

[Deirdre]

MEH.
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[bobsouer]

Oh the message delivered with three letters!
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[Deirdre]

Here's what I posted:

Long Time Gamer, Occasional Game Voice.

Where games are concerned "Residuals" is the wrong word, period.
The company that puts up the capital to launch the game takes the greatest risk. The creative and programming groups that work together and separately invest months of time on projects that may or may not pan out—although with the GTA franchise, it's hard to comprehend a dud. These are the people who rightfully benefit when a game sells well.

The voice actors come in and breathe life into the characters who inhabit your living room. Yes, there are fewer hours invested in the actual "work", the session work, but the readiness is what the studios pay for. It's like the old guy who charges $5002 for fixing the power station by tapping a switch with a hammer: $2 for tapping, $5000 for knowing where to tap.

We could argue over the comparison of the programming team and the VO as apples and oranges, because the creative team is on salary and the VO guy is freelance, but do we really need to hash that out?

The question is not one of residuals but of bonuses. Do the programmers, artists, creative audio teams receive bonuses for a game well made? Hell yeah. Meet your deadlines, hit your milestones, get the job done on time and ship that puppy out. The guys who sweat fro years to make the game possible deserve every bonus they get. But there should be a provision for a voice actor to receive a similar share of the rewards for a job well done. I say "similar" because I don't mean to imply that the voice actor should receive the same piece of the action the programmers get. There should simply be a mechanism in place so that a successful game rewards the voice actors.
As long as the word "residual" is used, this argument is going nowhere. And if SAG and AFTRA can't get their collective acts together regarding "new media", voice actors should either learn to negotiate on their own or expect to be hung out to dry.
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[Lizden]

Can I have a huge round of appluase for Mom?

L.
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Liz de Nesnera O.A.V. ~ Livin' The VO Dream!
English/French Bilingual VO w/ ISDN
HireLiz.com / liz@hireliz.com

[mcm]

DB, thank-you for doing that. It's an argument that nobody else was making and it needed to be said. And it will need to be said again, I'm sure.

[Yoda117]

For the video game itself I don't see a problem with the pay, but as for using his voice on TV or other medium, I'm with Jeff, Deebs, and the rest.

On the upside, the guys who developed some of the technology used for the graphics shading, etc. are making some royalties. Those algorithims didn't write themselves, folks!


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Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor

Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones

[Eddie Eagle]

[Deirdre]

part of the ongoing exchange:

People are aware that a residual isn't a "bonus." It's deferred payment against the lifetime value of a product.
Posted by: Jason Lee | May 23, 2008 3:06:46 AM

Yeah, the model for residuals is based on a number of public showings, or times used in public.
I don't really think that model applies for games. Any VO actor certainly should be compensated a la residuals for the promotional stuff.
Regarding programmers and residuals: Game engines are licensed annually— don't those payments amount to "royalties"?
The apples and oranges argument is about how people are paid. Programmers and designers are employed with a salary, isn't that right? There are plenty of contractors working on game projects, but there must be some kind of money in the pipeline as the work is being done. All your prep time and iterations count as part of your time spent working, doesn't it?
An actor doesn't receive $$ for prep, he usually pays to prepare. Working with an accent coach, for example. The actor is on his own as he studies the plot, and prepares for a session. All of this is value added— that is why a session seems to be so expensive. Your actor needs to show up ready to fire all guns. He doesn't get paid to arm himself and load.
Posted by: DB Cooper | May 23, 2008 7:56:59 AM
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[mcm]

DBC Cooper, a.k.a. "Smartest Kitteh".

You're saying a lot of things that need to be said, and in a way that might actually reach people. When you have that gift, you have the responsibility to use it (oh dear, that sounds so Spider Man). Thank-you for overcoming your reluctance and heeding the call!

[Bob Bergen]

Gotta chime in here.

A few years ago, SAG tried to get residuals for games. It was one of the easiest "gets" I've ever seen. The union wasn't going after residuals from every mom and pop gaming company out there. I don't have exact figures, but under the proposition, for a game to have paid any residuals it had to be a HUGE hit. Very few games came close to grossing the numbers needed to pay residuals in this proposal. The lesser successful games wouldn't pay a dime in residuals. And, of course, this wouldn't effect non union games. Plus, the % of residuals to be paid out to actors by these very successful games were minuscule.


Many actors complained that this plan wasn't enough compensation. But it was a starting point. And the residuals would grow as the gaming industry grew. Many actors were scared off by producers claiming that they'd never go union again with games if actors fought for residuals.

This scenario would never happen. EVERY major studio is producing games based on current and older movies. From Sean Connery to Al Pacino, major celebs are participating in games. Not just getting huge salaries to record, but huge back end deals as well. And most who participate in games have NO idea the rank and file don't get residuals. The biggest of the biggest stars agreed to honor a work stoppage if SAG wanted to fight for game residuals. But after the commercial strike actors were still stinging and the majority voted to not fight for game residuals.

Again with the celebs behind the union, and the sheer numbers of games coming out of the major studios and networks, plus the fact that the union was only asking for a tiny amount of residuals from only the most successful games, this was one of the easiest acquisitions in SAG's history.

It will come up again.

And it should. There are many reasons why residuals are essential for an actor's well being, There are times you work, for scale, on a game that becomes a huge hit. And your voice is very associated with this game. Because of this, other companies might not want to hire you because you are so associated with their competition. Residuals would allow you to continue to get some compensation. This is one of the reasons we get residuals for commercials. You do a spot for Coke? You can't read for the dozens of other soft drink ads being produced every day. So you get residuals to compensate you because while the Coke ad is running you are prohibited to work for the competition. And the conflicting companies can number in the hundreds. Coke may not want you to do any ads for all carbonated soft drinks, as well as any non carbonated soft drink, etc. It's up to them as to what they consider a conflict.

In the 60s SAG fought for TV residuals. The studios swore they would never pay TV residuals. Movies had stars. But any schmo on the street could do a TV western. Plus, the studios claimed that TV was in it's infancy. No way to know where it will go, if it will be a fad or success. SAG called their bluff. We got our residuals.

The gaming companies use the same arguments the studios did with TV. SAG was very generous in only asking for residuals from only the most successful games.

The vote will come again..sooner than later. I predict SAG and AFTRA will prevail. But there's no way to know for sure. The only thing I do know for sure is residuals are essential. No one, at least in the larger markets, can make a living on session fees alone.

BB