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Ribbon Microphones for Voice Over
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Gregory Best
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 1853
Location: San Diego area (east of Connie and south and east of Bailey)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank, nice to see you back contributing your vast knowledge of the biz.
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Gregory Best

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Marik



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 9
Location: SLC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank F wrote:

it is the microphone cannot handle the transient levels and sudden SPL's of the human voice speaking. The "ribbon" microphone was and IS designed for sustained, smooth, moderated sounds by virtue of it (ribbon) motor.


Hi Frank,

Do you have any data to support that? Smile

In general, ribbons have excellent transient response (at least on the par with condenser mics, if not better) and can easily handle SPLs the condensers could only dream of.

And no, even vintage ribbons were not designed for “sustained, smooth, moderated sounds”. In fact, for example BK5 could easily take the SPL of a gun shot sound in close proximity. Show me a condenser capable of that.

I know nothing what condensers (true pressure types are a special case) can do and ribbons cannot… with lower distortions, and much more natural sonics. I cannot say the same the other way around.

Best, M
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Mark Fouxman
Samar Audio & Microphone Design

www.samaraudiodesign.com

The Art of Ribbon Microphones--design, repairs, re-ribboning, modifications, motor machining and fabrication, transformers, and more...
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Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark!!!!!!!

Folks this is the "Mark" I had written about earlier from Samar Audio Design. Welcome Mark.

When it comes to microphones this man is the best and I respect his knowledge above others.

After a long discussion about ribbon motors and condenser capsules Mark and I know more about about what drives each others thoughts. We both agree that a microphone should fit the need of the person and the activity required.

In my case ribbons mics have not been my "go-to" tool, although Mark is attempting convince me this type of microphone can be designed to fulfill my needs with exceptional results.

Again, thank you for coming on board Mark your knowledge will benefit all here. And, Welcome to our part of the universe.

Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com
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Dayo
Cinquecento


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 544
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Mark - it's great to have you here.

Would love to hear more thoughts on ribbon mics for v/o. As I said previously, I'd very much like to be sold on a ribbon, but I've never found one that gives me the punch of an LDC. They always feel a bit "slow" to me....
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Colin Day - UK Voiceover
www.thurstonday.co.uk
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Marik



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 9
Location: SLC

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Frank and Colin for warm welcome!

The terms like "slow", "punch" are rather matter of semantics and in fact, can be just reflection of some other things and in this case, I think it is fig.8 pattern together with a lack of upper octaves response, many ribbons exhibit.

Definitely, some people look for more "focused" sound of the cardioid pattern, the fig.8 ribbon just cannot give. That is, if we follow 1:0.7 pattern rule, the main difficulty of using the fig8 would be a huge proximity. You cannot really get too close to the mic without things becoming way boomy. In other words, the ribbons should be EQed. This can be done whether in the construction, or with the outboard equalizer.

Some will say "ney" to any EQing advocating the "purity" of the signal path. It is however, does not matter where you insert the EQ--outboard, or build it into the mic--either way it is still an EQ. Moreover, probably some do not know, but EVERY single condenser microphone capsule (again, true pressure omni is a special case) has a HUGE amount of EQ built into the it, as a function of the resistance controlled system principle of working--something a "native" fig.8 ribbon doesn't have. That's one of the reasons why ribbons take an EQ so well.

But then there are quite a few cardioid (or even multipattern) ribbons, which have excellent and very smooth top frequency response, and for many might be a better choice for the VO application. Usually very expensive, with an exception of vintage Oktava ML19--a wonderful mic, which can be had for some $200-$300 (please keep in mind, most of those will need to be serviced, as they use a foam inside, which deteriorates and completely throughs the things out of wack...)

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Best, M
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Mark Fouxman
Samar Audio & Microphone Design

www.samaraudiodesign.com

The Art of Ribbon Microphones--design, repairs, re-ribboning, modifications, motor machining and fabrication, transformers, and more...
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Dayo
Cinquecento


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 544
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the further input Marik.

If all LDC mics are EQ'd in the capsule, does it follow that the tone of any might also be shaped by swapping out components in the mic itself?

As for the Oktava ML19, I'd say that was about the ugliest mic I've seen in a long time! But if it's as smooth as you say, it might well be worth trying. What's the self noise like?
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Colin Day - UK Voiceover
www.thurstonday.co.uk
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Marik



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 9
Location: SLC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayo wrote:
Thanks for the further input Marik.

If all LDC mics are EQ'd in the capsule, does it follow that the tone of any might also be shaped by swapping out components in the mic itself?


Not only LDC, but also all SD condenser capsules have huge peaks (can be up to 60dB) in the middle of the bandwidth. This is inevitable result of so called "resistance controlled" principle of operation. That is, the resonant tuning frequency is usually between some 900-1300Hz tuning, which after that acoustically (sometimes electronically, like for example in Seinheiser 405, etc.) damped for flat frequency response.

In the end it does not really matter how you change the EQ--acoustically, or electronically. The swapping the components may (or may not) change the tone of the microphone. The most important thing is to know what is your final goal. Sometimes the components change can bring you there, sometimes you need to change the capsule...

Dayo wrote:

As for the Oktava ML19, I'd say that was about the ugliest mic I've seen in a long time! But if it's as smooth as you say, it might well be worth trying. What's the self noise like?


The output is quite good, so usually no problem for such close up application as VO. Before you commit to anything I'd suggest to wait a little for some upcoming shootout tests...

Best, M
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Mark Fouxman
Samar Audio & Microphone Design

www.samaraudiodesign.com

The Art of Ribbon Microphones--design, repairs, re-ribboning, modifications, motor machining and fabrication, transformers, and more...
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